If the Rogue drives anything like the Murano, then it is comparatively a great drive. Maybe the rental companies make poor choices but the Nissan CVT is great driving-wise for an ICE car.
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If the Rogue drives anything like the Murano, then it is comparatively a great drive. Maybe the rental companies make poor choices but the Nissan CVT is great driving-wise for an ICE car.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Actually never drove one, but we have a Quest mini van with CVT and it drives very nice for a big 'ol mini-van. Does Model Y even go after this market or does it stay upscale like the Model 3? Could the Y really be the first truly economical Tesla. I know VA thinks it will be priced well bellow the $35K for the Model 3. The key is that the Model Y for Tesla is more about the machine that builds the Y, then the car itself. There is a lot of risk there, but extreme rewards if they can pull it off. The Rogue has a slightly higher base price compared to a Camry, $23k vs $23.8k. If the Y came in sub $30k base without incentives (Fed will be gone, but many local incentives will still be available), I think it would certainly crush those markets, IF Tesla can execute the machine that builds the machine to pump out massive numbers of the Model Y, then you could really be talking about massive automotive bankruptcies. The ramp would have to be something like 1M 3's and 1M Ys in 2020, then doubling every year for the following 2-3 years at a minimum.
With no incentives, including TCO and higher residual value, the $30K Y would be roughly equivalent to a $24k car. Keeping the math as simple is as possible, the value of each car is cut in half in the first 5 years then the difference in fuel and maintenance. If you have solar, its even more appealing.
The media continues to lack research ability on this topic. S & X are coming from the same production line which is running near or at capacity. More Model X orders == fewer Model S builds. You can't really equate production and demand when only so many vehicles can be built. There is certainly some cannibalization from Model 3 and from Model X as people are cross-shopping Tesla, not across manufacturers. Add to that the recent influx of cheap high mileage Model S used vehicles and it isn't surprising that more Model X new orders are coming in than new Model S orders. In summary, it doesn't bloody well matter how many S or X vehicles are produced, only X + S matters. Model 3 will be a whole different thing.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Rumors of a deal between Tesla and Swiss solar firm Meyer Burger
Is Tesla Looking To Partner With Swiss Photovoltaics Firm Meyer Burger?
Tesla May Consider Partnership with Swiss Photovoltaics Firm Meyer Burger
Is Tesla Looking To Partner With Swiss Photovoltaics Firm Meyer Burger?
Tesla May Consider Partnership with Swiss Photovoltaics Firm Meyer Burger
MitchJi
Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Any chance that this potential merger or news of the potential merger will trigger an SP bump?
Tesla May Consider Partnership with Swiss Photovoltaics Firm Meyer Burger
Tesla Inc. (TSLA) has been talking with Swiss photovoltaic cell manufacturer Meyer Burger, according to a note from Axiom Capital Research, about a partnership between the two alternative energy companies.
The firm's industry checks turned up rumors of a meeting between the CEOs of the two companies with Tesla showing interest in purchasing the manufacturing equipment that uses Meyer Burger's heterojunction ("HJT") solar cell technology.
If done on a mass scale, the potential partnership could slash the price of manufacturing the photovoltaic cells to 50% below that of the competition, according to the note.
Tesla May Consider Partnership with Swiss Photovoltaics Firm Meyer Burger
Tesla Inc. (TSLA) has been talking with Swiss photovoltaic cell manufacturer Meyer Burger, according to a note from Axiom Capital Research, about a partnership between the two alternative energy companies.
The firm's industry checks turned up rumors of a meeting between the CEOs of the two companies with Tesla showing interest in purchasing the manufacturing equipment that uses Meyer Burger's heterojunction ("HJT") solar cell technology.
If done on a mass scale, the potential partnership could slash the price of manufacturing the photovoltaic cells to 50% below that of the competition, according to the note.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Audi leading in autonomy? Audi takes pole position in race for fully autonomous cars- Nikkei Asian Review
Foreign carmakers call on China to soften electric car quotas
Hmm, strange, I was told that all of these traditional manufacturers will be coming with EVs en masse, which will compete and choke Tesla to death. So what is all this covfefe about?
Hmm, strange, I was told that all of these traditional manufacturers will be coming with EVs en masse, which will compete and choke Tesla to death. So what is all this covfefe about?
OEMs being dragged kicking and screaming into the future....or just going out of business.
larmor
Active Member
Traditional foreign automakers will go out of business. The marketplace is flat, and no single country holds an innovation advantage. So the only issue remains what will the upcoming burgeoning middle classes to China and IndoPak regions purchase for cars...
Clarification: same final assembly line (separate body lines).
The final assembly line contains the bottleneck for production rate, apparently. I expect once Model 3 is ramped up somewhat there will be a concerted effort to redesign Model S and X to remove the production bottlenecks in the final assembly line.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The new Audi A8 and A8L is out next model year as well as a refreshed S Class.
We shall see if that moves the needle.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The California Automobile Manufacturers Association (CAMA) thinks the proposed NEV laws are just dandy.
larmor
Active Member
Really hope China responds to this "respectful" proposal as follows:
"Thank you for your respectful suggestion to delay China's policies on electric cars. China is not the California CARB board that can be perverted by political maneuvers or distracted by auto industry sleights of hand like Hydrogen cars and Hybrids. We accept your suggestions in the same good faith as when you said you were manufacturing "clean diesel" engines and instead gave us cheating devices. We will not give credits for hybrid and electric cars sold in China prior to 2018, instead we are INCREASING quotas on electric car sales after 2018 for any manufacturer that sold diesel cars in China with cheating devices. This will be the only adjustment to EV credits for foreign automakers. China eagerly looks forward to the many new and innovative electric cars that have been repeatedly, and for years, announced in press releases. We hope these electric cars actually become available for sale instead of existing only on paper. Chinese battery companies look forward to filling orders for battery cells and packs for the many new electric cars that have been announced for FY 2018-2020 as there is little or no evidence of European, Japanese or German manufacturers creating their own capacity to produce electric drive trains. We are unsure what a 1yr delay would do to mitigate this lack of seriousness. China looks forward to partnering with global automakers to continue our country's economic and environmental progress. Any manufacturer not willing to abide by these new regulations can continue to sell their internal combustion cars anywhere else in the world.....for now. Sincerely, China "
MitchJi
Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
This is a change we've been waiting for?:
A revenue rule change is coming and every company will be affected
New rule aims to improve comparability by creating a single revenue recognition model across industries and across the globe
<Snip>
Automotive industry companies, including suppliers, dealers, original equipment manufacturers and their finance affiliates, will be significantly affected by the new revenue standard, which replaces all current revenue recognition guidance for companies reporting under U.S. GAAP or IFRS. The automotive industry will have to adopt new accounting for preproduction activities, such as design and tooling arrangements, marketing incentives like cash rebates, volume rebates, repurchase options, product warranties, contract costs, and lease financing arrangements.
New accounting for warranties could result in revenue deferral. Customer contracts containing repurchase options will now be accounted for as a lease when the customer has the right to require the company to repurchase the vehicle and the customer has a significant economic incentive to exercise that right. That will happen if the market price of the vehicle is less than the contract repurchase price when the customer becomes eligible for the option.
Tesla Inc. TSLA, -2.25% ended its popular resale value program for the entry-level Model S in July 2016. That buyback program guaranteed the resale value of a Model S after three years when purchased through one of Tesla’s loan financing plans. As of the end of first quarter 2017, Tesla had $1.29 billion recorded in resale value guarantees and still reports $311.7 million in deferred revenue liability from the program.
<Snip>
Technology companies—software, cloud computing, internet, semiconductors, hardware / equipment, and clean-tech—frequently provide multiple products or services to their customers as part of a single transaction. Hardware vendors sell extended maintenance contracts and consulting along with the hardware, and vendors of software licenses may provide professional services in addition to the license.
For these companies the new revenue recognition standard will replace all industry-specific revenue guidance, including software revenue recognition guidance under U.S. GAAP. For software and software-related transactions, in particular, companies will have much different timing for revenue recognition of licenses than in the past.
A “sell-through approach” is also common for technology companies that use dealers or distributors. Under the new standard, revenue is recognized when a customer obtains control of the product, even if they have a right of return or a price protection option. That compares to prior practice where revenue was recognized once the risks and rewards of ownership transferred to the end consumer.
Revenue recognition for service revenues such as consulting and manufacturing services, including business strategy services, supply-chain management, system implementation, outsourcing services, and control and system reliance may also change under the new standard depending on whether the performance obligation is satisfied at a point in time or over time.
The new standard will require substantial judgment by companies in determining when revenue can be recognized for licensing transactions based on when the customer obtains control of the rights to use the intellectual property.
<Snip>
Industrial products companies like 3M Co. MMM, -0.15% will see changes from multi-step transactions with distributors. In those cases, companies will have to allocate some of the transaction price in the contract to those goods and or services, even if they will be provided by a third party and delay revenue recognition until those goods or services are delivered. The new standard could, for example, impact the timing of revenue recognition for some transactions where software industry-specific guidance is currently used and is now being replaced.
A revenue rule change is coming and every company will be affected
New rule aims to improve comparability by creating a single revenue recognition model across industries and across the globe
<Snip>
Automotive industry companies, including suppliers, dealers, original equipment manufacturers and their finance affiliates, will be significantly affected by the new revenue standard, which replaces all current revenue recognition guidance for companies reporting under U.S. GAAP or IFRS. The automotive industry will have to adopt new accounting for preproduction activities, such as design and tooling arrangements, marketing incentives like cash rebates, volume rebates, repurchase options, product warranties, contract costs, and lease financing arrangements.
New accounting for warranties could result in revenue deferral. Customer contracts containing repurchase options will now be accounted for as a lease when the customer has the right to require the company to repurchase the vehicle and the customer has a significant economic incentive to exercise that right. That will happen if the market price of the vehicle is less than the contract repurchase price when the customer becomes eligible for the option.
Tesla Inc. TSLA, -2.25% ended its popular resale value program for the entry-level Model S in July 2016. That buyback program guaranteed the resale value of a Model S after three years when purchased through one of Tesla’s loan financing plans. As of the end of first quarter 2017, Tesla had $1.29 billion recorded in resale value guarantees and still reports $311.7 million in deferred revenue liability from the program.
<Snip>
Technology companies—software, cloud computing, internet, semiconductors, hardware / equipment, and clean-tech—frequently provide multiple products or services to their customers as part of a single transaction. Hardware vendors sell extended maintenance contracts and consulting along with the hardware, and vendors of software licenses may provide professional services in addition to the license.
For these companies the new revenue recognition standard will replace all industry-specific revenue guidance, including software revenue recognition guidance under U.S. GAAP. For software and software-related transactions, in particular, companies will have much different timing for revenue recognition of licenses than in the past.
A “sell-through approach” is also common for technology companies that use dealers or distributors. Under the new standard, revenue is recognized when a customer obtains control of the product, even if they have a right of return or a price protection option. That compares to prior practice where revenue was recognized once the risks and rewards of ownership transferred to the end consumer.
Revenue recognition for service revenues such as consulting and manufacturing services, including business strategy services, supply-chain management, system implementation, outsourcing services, and control and system reliance may also change under the new standard depending on whether the performance obligation is satisfied at a point in time or over time.
The new standard will require substantial judgment by companies in determining when revenue can be recognized for licensing transactions based on when the customer obtains control of the rights to use the intellectual property.
<Snip>
Industrial products companies like 3M Co. MMM, -0.15% will see changes from multi-step transactions with distributors. In those cases, companies will have to allocate some of the transaction price in the contract to those goods and or services, even if they will be provided by a third party and delay revenue recognition until those goods or services are delivered. The new standard could, for example, impact the timing of revenue recognition for some transactions where software industry-specific guidance is currently used and is now being replaced.
Or consumers may start to realize that true-cost-to-own makes a $69K Tesla significantly cheaper than a comparably priced ICE, or Tesla reduces the base price a bit. Either way a lower priced base model opens up a much larger market. Not to mention all that free advertising from Model 3 introduction .....
in any case, I continue to believe 200K S/X is a reasonable goal for 2020 if Tesla decides to invest in the production capacity (open question). If they don't expand capacity I would expect margins to continue to increase significantly.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Consumers switching over to Tesla does not account for a shrinking overall market.
If demand was that hot for Model S there would be no need for $1k off or referral prizes. Or reintroduction of standard supercharging or any other demand lever.
Doubling Gen II sales is always possible. Especially with expansion into new markets like Middle East,South Korea,Mexico,Brazil and a decent market share in Japan.
China already turned down requests to soften the BEV timeline a month ago 
China upholds strict electric car sales quotas despite industry protests
China upholds strict electric car sales quotas despite industry protests
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