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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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He is got a point. If you are looking for a bull echo chamber TMC isn't it. Dare I say we are balanced???
Or perhaps we are still a long way away from a local top?

Things haven't gotten ra-ra, over-the-top bullish here yet, surprisingly, despite a big runup over the last 4 months. TrendTrader is typical of a momentum investor. That we aren't inundated with momentum investors yet suggests there is more upside here to go, before we hit a blow-off top. Factor in that future fuel to the existing kindling of large short positions and there is a volatile mixture shaping up.
 
Note that from the original Gigafactory announcement of 35 GWh of cell production and 50 GWh of pack production, the Gigafactory 1 is now roughly triple the size. So in effect, they are building 3. Clearly, they will need to have at least one in each major region (North America, Europe, and Asia). Hopefully Trump's administration can win some concessions from China on the terms of creating factories in China. It's definitely unfair right now.
Exact same thoughts. Who knows in a year they might be able to squeeze even more production out of GF1. Same hope that China will relax their requirements now dealing with similar protectionist government.
 
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theory: The factory chokepoint isn't actually the final assembly line. It's the parking lot. It is so stuffed that any parking lot disruption brings the factory down. Since they need a bunch of room to get the press and possibly other stuff in they are just using the time to do a endo-of-year style retooling and keeping the rank and file home so they have physical space to do the work.

What? You did not hear about 3D parking lots??
 
"Note that from the original Gigafactory announcement of 35 GWh of cell production and 50 GWh of pack production, the Gigafactory 1 is now roughly triple the size."

I'm unclear about the latest Tesla statements on how much the Gigafactory is now expected to produce when they are done and when.
Was 35/50 GWh the original plan? Was that upped once or twice? I think at one point Tesla said they'd figured out how to make much more cells per year in the amount of factory space they'd originally planned. Maybe two or three times the original GWh forecast.
Then perhaps more recently, did they revise the total size of GF higher than original plan, and did that then raise the target production by whatever year even higher? Thanks if anyone knows and can summarize.

Finally in the 35 GWh cell and 50 GWh pack production spit, does that mean they expected GF to make 35 GWh of cells and then in addition they planned to bring in 15 GWh of additional cells to then output 50 GWh in packs?
 
But @mmd @bonaire and @schonelucht are less bearish and @ValueAnalyst and @myusername are noticeably absent.
That really just helps explain this first part of the move up, which has happened without significant numbers of momentum traders. What I'm suggesting is if the momo folks show up in large numbers, watch out. Hasn't happened yet, so I posit there is potentially more kindling left to ignite. There are significant macro risks looming though, in my opinion, which tempers my enthusiasm to some degree.
 
Regarding taking profits
Many people are taking some profits after the excellent rise of the last 10 weeks. I certainly understand this, as prices above $250 are a historical natural high for TSLA, just like how $180 is a historical low. On hind site, a strategy of buy at $180 and sell at $250 would have been excellent over the last 2.5 years.

I do think this is a mistake now though, or rather a missed opportunity. Tesla has pushed through many obstacles from M3 design and Gigafactory production, to the SCTY acquisition, and now has more opportunity lined up in front of them then ever, by a large margin. The fruits of these efforts are just starting to come into focus.

So I don't think the next 2.5 years will be anything like the last. I think Tesla is heading much higher. Maybe not $2000, but much higher than $300. I'm sure there will be dips along the way, but the rise will be enough that I don't want to miss it. $260 might seem high in the context of the last several years, but I bet if you knew the next 2.5 years it would seem quite low.

I promised myself back on Jan 1 that I wouldn't sell any TSLA this year (the same time I predicted a Dec 31, 2017 price of $617). It's getting a little tempting to take some profits, but unless something major changes, I'm sticking to no selling until Dec 31 or $617, whichever comes first.
 
With only 14 days before the conference call, I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone guessing what the CY2017 deliveries guidance will be. I'm going to go for 150,000 total vehicles. Model S+X will continue apace, but be slowed by Model 3 shenanigans at the factory throughout the year.

Good point. I think they will not give FY guidance on the Model 3 with Elon reminding us that in an exponential ramp one week can make a 50% miss or beat. Guidance on Model S/X will be relatively sedate around 100k. Reason : focus on Model 3 growth instead.
 
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But @mmd @bonaire and @schonelucht are less bearish and @ValueAnalyst and @myusername are noticeably absent.

In terms of "bearishness" it is a matter of watching and wondering how things will play out if CapEx for 2016 is well below the guide and "why" behind that. Given the talk of Fremont + GF1 being a able to do 1MM cars a year (but not a good idea) you'd expect that they have spent big money and are on-plan for a solid amount of Model 3 in late H2. Funds have pushed shares way up and may be about to add protection into earnings "just in case". Guide for 2017 is big, 2018 bigger. But macro-economic conditions aren't as as rosy or as bad some "either side" would have us believe. Tesla seems to be on a consistent run rate of 2000 cars per week (from Q4 into Q1) due to AP 2.0 desires of the customer base. However, AP 2.0 is and not done yet and needs to earn its new-place. Tesla Energy is still below the revenue guide of April 2015 and any other company being below guidance would be punished. Car guide was to exit 2016 at 2400/wk. If the stock "goes into retreat" that affects S/X sales in the near term. Stock price "runs" may draw in buyers of cars due to further support to pay-back personal winnings.
 
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To add color to the mild-mannered half-hearted bearishness expressed above, I think that proposed carbon tax could be a huge white swan event.

Cost of gasoline, ICE cars, non-renewable electricity would go up. Cost of TA, TE and TS products will inch down as Tesla gains economies of scale from the new factories. Tesla also have leg up on competition due to the size of the GF that is unmatched by anybody out there, ready for acceleration of the TA, TE, and TS market which did not seem realistic without the carbon tax. Perfect storm.

Trump has huge incentives, including political (can anybody also say diversion as for other special ones) to follow advice of the prominent republicans, and jump on the wagon - just read the letter by Shultz and Baker published in WSJ and tweeted out by Elon (enclosed below to avoid pay-walled link). Also remember what Gore and Musk has been saying about Trump's attitude toward climate change policies

I say that owners of Tesla massive short positions will be confronted with roar of animal spirits and such, which their half dead brains could not have imagined.

It seems that TSLA may pause until the ER (hopefully) removes any overhangs and then just roars up.

Please exercise caution, but be prepared for a wild ride up. In another words: "TSLA isn't going to hit $1000 any time soon"


A Conservative Answer to Climate Change

Enacting a carbon tax would free up private firms to find the most efficient ways to cut emissions.


By


George P. Shultz and



James A. Baker III



Updated Feb. 7, 2017 7:07 p.m. ET



Thirty years ago, as the atmosphere’s protective ozone layer was dwindling at alarming rates, we were serving proudly under President Ronald Reagan. We remember his leading role in negotiating the Montreal Protocol, which continues to protect and restore the delicate ozone layer. Today the world faces a similar challenge: the threat of climate change.



Just as in the 1980s, there is mounting evidence of problems with the atmosphere that are growing too compelling to ignore. And, once again, there is uncertainty about what lies ahead. The extent to which climate change is due to man-made causes can be questioned. But the risks associated with future warming are so severe that they should be hedged.



The responsible and conservative response should be to take out an insurance policy. Doing so need not rely on heavy-handed, growth-inhibiting government regulations. Instead, a climate solution should be based on a sound economic analysis that embodies the conservative principles of free markets and limited government.



We suggest a solution that rests on four pillars. First, creating a gradually increasing carbon tax. Second, returning the tax proceeds to the American people in the form of dividends. Third, establishing border carbon adjustments that protect American competitiveness and encourage other countries to follow suit. And fourth, rolling back government regulations once such a system is in place.



The first pillar, a carbon tax, is the most cost-effective way to reduce emissions. Unlike the current cumbersome regulatory approach, a levy on emissions would free companies to find the most efficient way to reduce their carbon footprint. A sensibly priced, gradually rising tax would send a powerful market signal to businesses that want certainty when planning for the future.



A “carbon dividend” payment, the second pillar, would have tax proceeds distributed to the American people on a quarterly basis. This way, the revenue-neutral tax would benefit working families rather than bloat government spending. A $40-per-ton carbon tax would provide a family of four with roughly $2,000 in carbon dividends in the first year, an amount that could grow over time as the carbon tax rate increased.



A carbon dividends policy could spur larger reductions in greenhouse-gas emissions than all of President Obama’s climate policies. At the same time, our plan would strengthen the economy, help working-class Americans, and promote national security, all while reducing regulations and shrinking the size of government.



The third pillar is a border adjustment for carbon content. When American companies export to countries without comparable carbon pricing systems, they would receive rebates on the carbon taxes they have paid. Imports from such countries, meanwhile, would face fees on the carbon content of their products. Proceeds from such fees would also be returned to the American people through carbon dividends. Pioneering such a system would put America in the driver’s seat of global climate policy. It would also promote American competitiveness by penalizing countries whose lack of carbon-reduction policies would otherwise give them an unfair trade advantage.



The eventual elimination of regulations no longer necessary after the enactment of a carbon tax would constitute the final pillar. Almost all of the Environmental Protection Agency’s regulatory authority over carbon emissions could be eliminated, including an outright repeal of President Obama’s Clean Power Plan. Robust carbon taxes would also justify ending federal and state tort liability for emitters.



With these principles in mind, on Wednesday the Climate Leadership Council is unveiling “The Conservative Case for Carbon Dividends.” The report was co-authored by conservative thinkers Martin Feldstein,Henry Paulson Jr., Gregory Mankiw,Ted Halstead,Tom Stephenson and Rob Walton.



This carbon dividends program would help steer the U.S. toward a path of more durable economic growth by encouraging technological innovation and large-scale substitution of existing energy sources. It would also provide much-needed regulatory relief to U.S. industries. Companies, especially those in the energy sector, finally would have the predictability they now lack, removing one of the most serious impediments to capital investment.



Perhaps most important, the carbon-dividends plan speaks to the increasing frustration and economic insecurity experienced by many working-class Americans. The plan would elevate the fortunes of the nation’s less-advantaged while strengthening the economy. A Treasury Department report published last month predicts that carbon dividends would mean income gains for about 70% of Americans.



This plan will also be good for the long-term prospects of the Republican Party. About two-thirds of Americans worry a “great deal” or “fair amount” about climate change, according to a 2016 Gallup survey. Polls often show concern about climate change is higher among younger voters, and among Asians and Hispanics, the fastest-growing demographic groups. A carbon-dividends plan provides an opportunity to appeal to all three demographics.



Controlling the White House and Congress means that Republicans bear the responsibility of exercising wise leadership on the defining challenges of our era. Climate change is one of these issues. It is time for the Grand Old Party to once again lead the way.


Mr. Shultz was secretary of state (1982-89) and Treasury secretary (1972-74). Mr. Baker was secretary of state (1989-92) and Treasury secretary (1985-88).
 
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