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Original source is a couple of Disqus comments here:

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/tesla-truck-delayed-again-109322/

We've been discussing it on the Dave T thread, but maybe it's better to move the discussion here.
Thoughts and questions on rumored Gigafactory/Panasonic problems.

- This comment seems legit to me, at least in this guys view. His view seems to be kind of racist and very sure of himself, I have all the answers type. I suspect he is not privy to everything that is going on, especially in terms of planning to overcome the problems they are currently having.

-Is there any chance that the truck delay is because they have a genuine problem with Panasonic employees not being qualified, and Tesla has pulled a bunch of engineers off of non model 3 related projects and sent them to Nevada to help sort out the mess?

-This is not the first time Tesla has been burned by well intentioned suppliers, who dropped the ball, and their go to response seems to be to insource. Is there any chance that the Tesla- Panasonic relationship might change to Tesla being responsible for building the batteries, using licensed Panasonic equipment, and processes? If they are sending Tesla engineers over to help, that might be a sign of this?

-Do we know how long the Aging/ formation process takes for the cells? Even once they get the line running well, it will be some time before the cells are ready to assemble into packs, and they are shipped to Fremont and ready to go. I am still stuck on the imagery of the sloth video, and think it had something to do with good news at the gigafactory. Is there any chance that when Elon Tweet's about December being a monster month of production, he knows it, because the cells are fresh off the line and aging in the racks, but won't be ready in modules, until late November?
 
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Thoughts and questions on rumored Gigafactory/Panasonic problems.

- This comment seems legit to me, at least in this guys view. His view seems to be kind of racist and very sure of himself, I have all the answers type. I suspect he is not privy to everything that is going on, especially in terms of planning to overcome the problems they are currently having.

-Is there any chance that the truck delay is because they have a genuine problem with Panasonic employees not being qualified, and Tesla has pulled a bunch of engineers off of non model 3 related projects and sent them to Nevada to help sort out the mess?

-This is not the first time Tesla has been burned by well intentioned suppliers, who dropped the ball, and their go to response seems to be to insource. Is there any chance that the Tesla- Panasonic relationship might change to Tesla being responsible for building the batteries, using licensed Panasonic equipment, and processes? If they are sending Tesla engineers over to help, that might be a sign of this?

-Do we know how long the Aging/ formation process takes for the cells? Even once they get the line running well, it will be some time before the cells are ready to assemble into packs, and they are shipped to Fremont and ready to go. I am still stuck on the imagery of the sloth video, and think it had something to do with good news at the gigafactory. Is there any chance that when Elon Tweet's about December being a monster month of production, he knows it, because the cells are fresh off the line and aging in the racks, but won't be ready in modules, until late November?
Why the questions? I haven't seen anything suggesting anything is wrong at the GF. The only suggestion was that some battery packs were exchanged because of problems with poor grounding.
 
Thoughts and questions on rumored Gigafactory/Panasonic problems.

- This comment seems legit to me, at least in this guys view. His view seems to be kind of racist and very sure of himself, I have all the answers type. I suspect he is not privy to everything that is going on, especially in terms of planning to overcome the problems they are currently having.

-Is there any chance that the truck delay is because they have a genuine problem with Panasonic employees not being qualified, and Tesla has pulled a bunch of engineers off of non model 3 related projects and sent them to Nevada to help sort out the mess?

-This is not the first time Tesla has been burned by well intentioned suppliers, who dropped the ball, and their go to response seems to be to insource. Is there any chance that the Tesla- Panasonic relationship might change to Tesla being responsible for building the batteries, using licensed Panasonic equipment, and processes? If they are sending Tesla engineers over to help, that might be a sign of this?

I thought Tesla employees weren't even allowed in the Panasonic sections of the Gigafactory. Which makes me doubt some of his statements. On the other hand if the power really does have issues that often I can see that causing all kinds of problems. Of course the solution to that is the deployment of some Powerpacks, I wouldn't think it would take that many to smooth out the bumps.
 
I second this.

Second time I'm seeing this. What's a care bear?

It's someone who pretends to be interested in the well-being of long investors. They create posts that exhibit "sincere" concern about certain issues related to a company. They're not immediately ignored or discredited because they don't seem as outlandish as more fervent FUDsters like MontanaSeptic or MarkBSmeagol. It's really just an insidious form of FUD that tries to undermine investor confidence, gently.
 
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I thought Tesla employees weren't even allowed in the Panasonic sections of the Gigafactory. Which makes me doubt some of his statements. On the other hand if the power really does have issues that often I can see that causing all kinds of problems. Of course the solution to that is the deployment of some Powerpacks, I wouldn't think it would take that many to smooth out the bumps.

The short power outages ruining cells seems really suspect, i know they have powerpacks installed at fremont, seems likely the gigafactory would also have some.
 
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Montana Skeptic just published an article on SA that might draw the attention of Morgan Stanley legal team.

In it he states (among other libelous statements) :

Why did Adam Jonas rush out a report that ignores the issues raised in the business press about Model 3 delays, and instead offers half-baked reasons for increasing his price target?

Because, gentle readers, Morgan Stanley is a Tesla underwriter. It has collected millions in underwriting fees so far, and it knows Tesla will need billions more in capital raises to stay afloat. It wants a seat at the table for those offerings, and it knows the next one will be coming before Q1 2018 ends.

Tesla had just suffered a $14 per share price reversal in the wake of bad news. So, what better way to show that Morgan Stanley is loyal, devoted, and faithful to the Tesla flag than to rush out a report with a dramatic target price hike?

And, give Morgan Stanley this: the hastily organized rescue mission appears to have worked. Monday's share price erosion was largely restored on Tuesday after the Morgan Stanley note appeared and was immediately publicized by businessinsider, MarketWatch, CNBC, here at Seeking Alpha, etc.



Combined with his recent Tweets, feels like a meltdown to me. Montana's position might be hurting him badly, and IMHO he is getting very close to serious libel.

Should Morgan Stanley legal get after him, hiding behind anonymous author is not going to help Montana Skeptic much. Just Morgan Stanley suing him will hurt his finances badly, no matter if it ever gets to a court case.
 
Tesla had just suffered a $14 per share price reversal in the wake of bad news. So, what better way to show that Morgan Stanley is loyal, devoted, and faithful to the Tesla flag than to rush out a report with a dramatic target price hike?
If only I had the cash to hire a private investigator to delve through Montana Skeptic's income statements, and publish that he himself is doing the exact same thing in reverse that he's claiming against Morgan Stanley, for pay.

But then, if I had that cash, I'd probably just buy more TSLA stock with it. :)
 
I thought Tesla employees weren't even allowed in the Panasonic sections of the Gigafactory. Which makes me doubt some of his statements. On the other hand if the power really does have issues that often I can see that causing all kinds of problems. Of course the solution to that is the deployment of some Powerpacks, I wouldn't think it would take that many to smooth out the bumps.
Panasonic hires local employees also.
 
Hey guys....

Here is an article from CNBC.. Phil LeBeau.... typical crap article...
Investors giving 'cash incineration engine' Tesla a lot of rope, but may soon lose patience.

Phil LeBeau on Twitter

This headline is misleading in 2 respects... the people he is referring to are investors only in the broadest sense of the word, in that they are are long/short hedge fund, which is in an investment vehicle. But with regards to Tesla they are shorts. Furthermore, they're not "losing patience", they are actively betting against Tesla.

I have responded to him

andrew thomas on Twitter

Anyway... my thought is... I see this all the time... link bait headline... and in the article... they basically contradict themselves.

Here is a blog I wrote about reviews of the Chevy Bolt... where they make grand claims in the headline that the Bolt is a big problem for Tesla but then rein in the claims with disclaimers that largely contradict the headline.

The media on Tesla versus the Chevy Bolt – Andrew Thomas – Medium

Does anyone have any idea about how we could shame or tarnish the reputation of these journalists that do this? Or somehow incentivize them to report more honestly? I may start putting up more tweets like that... I am also trying to think of a good hash tag to express this idea... #linkbait #fakenews I don't know. The other problem is that by tweeting it's just drawing more attention to them. Any ideas?
 
Hey guys....

Here is an article from CNBC.. Phil LeBeau.... typical crap article...
Investors giving 'cash incineration engine' Tesla a lot of rope, but may soon lose patience.

Phil LeBeau on Twitter

This headline is misleading in 2 respects... the people he is referring to are investors only in the broadest sense of the word, in that they are are long/short hedge fund, which is in an investment vehicle. But with regards to Tesla they are shorts. Furthermore, they're not "losing patience", they are actively betting against Tesla.

I have responded to him

andrew thomas on Twitter

Anyway... my thought is... I see this all the time... link bait headline... and in the article... they basically contradict themselves.

Here is a blog I wrote about reviews of the Chevy Bolt... where they make grand claims in the headline that the Bolt is a big problem for Tesla but then rein in the claims with disclaimers that largely contradict the headline.

The media on Tesla versus the Chevy Bolt – Andrew Thomas – Medium

Does anyone have any idea about how we could shame or tarnish the reputation of these journalists that do this? Or somehow incentivize them to report more honestly? I may start putting up more tweets like that... I am also trying to think of a good hash tag to express this idea... #linkbait #fakenews I don't know. The other problem is that by tweeting it's just drawing more attention to them. Any ideas?
I think ignoring them, not even clicking is the best approach. Giving their crap articles any attention just serves to feed the fire in a way.
 
Original source is a couple of Disqus comments here:

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/tesla-truck-delayed-again-109322/

We've been discussing it on the Dave T thread, but maybe it's better to move the discussion here.

The guy's insights just provide enough detail to play on the readers' doubts. Heck, I've entertained these doubts so that resonance makes it seem legit.

- Nevada is known for casinos and its related service industry, therefore there will not be any technically qualified people there to do the job right, so therefore the product will not be done right.

- Nevada power outages , road infrastructure - Does Nevada Energy have the energy generation capacity to supply the demands of the largest building footprint in the world? It's in the middle of nowhere guys, how can the supply chain deliver the massive amounts of raw material to the site? Power outages can easily be refuted based on scouring for Nevada local news on such events. I have tried and did not find any recent significant outage incident. As to the road infrastructure, the State recently opened the USA highway a 12 mile roadway bridging I80 with State Road 50 which he conveniently omitted it (Google Maps)

- American workers do not do quality work, Japanese workers do it better - not worth expanding on this drivel

- Japanese workers are Japanese speaking so there must be communication challenges. Tesla and Panasonic have been in this partnership since their inception and has proven to be mutually beneficial. There should be no material difference and in fact should provide huge advantages now that this same partnership is share the same building.
 
Hey guys....

Here is an article from CNBC.. Phil LeBeau.... typical crap article...
Investors giving 'cash incineration engine' Tesla a lot of rope, but may soon lose patience.

Phil LeBeau on Twitter

This headline is misleading in 2 respects... the people he is referring to are investors only in the broadest sense of the word, in that they are are long/short hedge fund, which is in an investment vehicle. But with regards to Tesla they are shorts. Furthermore, they're not "losing patience", they are actively betting against Tesla.

I have responded to him

andrew thomas on Twitter

Anyway... my thought is... I see this all the time... link bait headline... and in the article... they basically contradict themselves.

Here is a blog I wrote about reviews of the Chevy Bolt... where they make grand claims in the headline that the Bolt is a big problem for Tesla but then rein in the claims with disclaimers that largely contradict the headline.

The media on Tesla versus the Chevy Bolt – Andrew Thomas – Medium

Does anyone have any idea about how we could shame or tarnish the reputation of these journalists that do this? Or somehow incentivize them to report more honestly? I may start putting up more tweets like that... I am also trying to think of a good hash tag to express this idea... #linkbait #fakenews I don't know. The other problem is that by tweeting it's just drawing more attention to them. Any ideas?

I guess many investors still don't believe "paid bashing" is a thing. If I short one billion dollars of stock XYZ, I pay 5 million dollars to a PR company to destroy that company, the cost is only 0.5%. I can ask the PR company don't do anything illegal, and "free speech" is not illegal. Trust me, for 5 million dollars, the PR company can write a lot of articles and posts.

When iPhone was out, Steve Jobs paid independent electronics reviewers $200k each person. When he was confronted, he said "I paid, so what!". I think Jobs was brilliant. But those famous reviewers should have disclosed that they took money, but they didn't disclose. Does anyone still remember their names? No one cares.

My suggestion is to have a website or a blog to keep track of these guys and what they did, so readers can easily revisit. We need a way to remember them.
 
I guess many investors still don't believe "paid bashing" is a thing. If I short one billion dollars of stock XYZ, I pay 5 million dollars to a PR company to destroy that company, the cost is only 0.5%. I can ask the PR company don't do anything illegal, and "free speech" is not illegal. Trust me, for 5 million dollars, the PR company can write a lot of articles and posts.

When iPhone was out, Steve Jobs paid independent electronics reviewers $200k each person. When he was confronted, he said "I paid, so what!". I think Jobs was brilliant. But those famous reviewers should have disclosed that they took money, but they didn't disclose. Does anyone still remember their names? No one cares.

My suggestion is to have a website or a blog to keep track of these guys and what they did, so readers can easily revisit. We need a way to remember them.

Interesting idea... it would be useful if there was a meta-site that collected information about journalists... and bloggers.. one that gives them some sort of reputation or score... sorta like page rank. and uses that score in ranking their most recent articles.

Or even one that used artificial intelligence (like nlp) to rank how "contradictory" the article is.
 
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Charging A Bolt EV At A Tesla Destination Station? Sure You Can!

"<
Well, it turns out that there is a handy little device that can unlock access to most Tesla (non-Supercharger) destination stations!

A month of 2 ago I came across a special for a Jdapter Stub made by Quick Charge Power (link). Use promo code “Jdapter239” for a $160 discount and $239 sale price!), a company in SoCal that makes all sorts of EV accessories.

Their Jdapter Stub allows for non-Tesla EVs to charge using Tesla’s NON-SUPERCHARGER destination charging stations mentioned above. While these destination charging stations have Tesla’s proprietary plug that would normally make it unusable with a non-Tesla EV, the Jdapter Stub allows any EV owner to connect and charge using the Stub, with a couple of exceptions. They are the only company I know of that makes this type of device.
>"
 
I guess many investors still don't believe "paid bashing" is a thing. If I short one billion dollars of stock XYZ, I pay 5 million dollars to a PR company to destroy that company, the cost is only 0.5%. I can ask the PR company don't do anything illegal, and "free speech" is not illegal. Trust me, for 5 million dollars, the PR company can write a lot of articles and posts.

When iPhone was out, Steve Jobs paid independent electronics reviewers $200k each person. When he was confronted, he said "I paid, so what!". I think Jobs was brilliant. But those famous reviewers should have disclosed that they took money, but they didn't disclose. Does anyone still remember their names? No one cares.

My suggestion is to have a website or a blog to keep track of these guys and what they did, so readers can easily revisit. We need a way to remember them.

I've thought about doing this, but it's risky. There seem to be a lot of emotional (possibly unbalanced) people invested one way or another in Tesla. Creating an anonymous website isn't easy, otherwise you're a target for harassment by the losing side (bears). I have a family as well as a career-related public presence that I don't want attacked by the perma-bears.

Even if we did track them, so what? I'm very confident in Tesla's inevitable rise, and tracking those people won't significantly alter Tesla's progress. I decided it's better to put that effort into my career and passively watch Tesla soar.
 
I second this. Second time I'm seeing this. What's a care bear?
Wild guess:
Maybe a long (care bear =an "anti-bear") who take care of other longs, preventing fud bears scare ppl out of their shares?

LOL. When I saw it the first time, I assumed it was a short (bear) masquerading as a long ("caring"), attempting to influence over time. The type of villain in stories with a super-long arc.
 
I have been watching this discussion, the price movements, and the bull and bear articles and analyst notes like a hawk, like many on here, and just thought I'd give my unimportant thoughts.

First, I am pretty agnostic on the stock. I love the idea, and have followed Tesla since the beginning. I waver from cautiously optimistic, to downright bearish on the company as various challenges come and go. Right now, I'm stuck right in the middle.

On the positive side, I agree with most on here that a two week, or two month, or even longer delay in volume 3 production really isn't that important to the long term success of the company. So they missed the 3Q guidance by some outrageous percentage. Who cares? That was what, 1300 units? Once things are moving, that will be a day of production. I don't think Tesla is nearly as outrageously excellent at manufacturing as some might hope, but there is absolutely no reason they won't get this figured out and be producing vehicles at the rate the line was designed for, which should be 5k/week.

On the other hand, the narrative really bothers me. Why the need to claim at the July delivery event that these were "not engineering validation units," or whatever he said. He claimed they were "production" vehicles. Why not just say that the production line wasn't operating and that these were 30 hand built vehicles made of as many production parts as possible, with the others using high quality components from prototype tooling, or whatever the case was? I am not filling in the blank. I don't know why, and I'm not accusing Elon of being the "great swindler" or a liar, or anything else. All I am saying is the narrative is creating one impression, but the truth doesn't line up, and it is hard to reconcile what Tesla gains by all the questions. Elon's actual words may have been technically true, but there is no doubt they created an impression to those outside the company that did not correspond to reality, for a benefit I don't see.

This was amped up last week with all this stuff about the WSJ article, etc. There were lots of virtual high fives when Tesla PR put out their statement and when Elon sent out the video. However, as many others have pointed out, they didn't specifically refute any of the hard allegations. I thought the video really seemed pitiful. I have read the earlier discussion on this, and I personally have experience in an assembly line operation and with industrial automation. This video clearly shows a robot during pre-production debugging. I can explain why if necessary, but I think earlier discussions on this thread hit most of what I would say. It doesn't in any way prove that guys weren't doing things by hand in September, or even that they aren't doing things by hand now. It just shows they do have robots installed and capable of running through portions of a welding routine at less than full speed. I won't bore anyone with the process of line design, equipment installation, commissioning, and all, but suffice to say that this video should have been made in June or July at the latest, if the line was really expected to be at full rate by the end of the year.

Which brings me back, to, why the need to push the impression that the line is running? Nobody (who matters) cares if the thing is even 6 months behind schedule. Heck, Adam Jonas, arguably the staunchest Tesla bull out there, didn't expect them to be at full production for a solid 6 months later than Telsa predicted. It just seems to me that it would be so much better if they just said, "wow, AJ studies our company so well he can predict our results better than we can. Sure enough, we are right on track to meet his delivery guidance." Meeting the guidance of a reliable bull wouldn't disappoint anyone, and it would bring a lot of credibility. I mean seriously, at the 2Q earnings call, Elon was still touting the same 30, 100, 1500, or whatever it was that he had a month before. Why wouldn't he reel in expectations then?

I know I am not in the mainstream of this forum, but I can honestly say I would have much more confidence in the company if there were no projections from Elon. Looking at the actual performance of the production ramp, it is nothing to be ashamed of. The only reason it is criticized is because if falls short of what Elon projected only a couple of months ago. It forces people to ask, "why." If we only had the ramp to go on, it is already moving much faster than X or S. For me, Tesla creates their own FUD by not being more transparent and providing updates when things don't go as planned.
 
The guy's insights just provide enough detail to play on the readers' doubts. Heck, I've entertained these doubts so that resonance makes it seem legit.

- Nevada is known for casinos and its related service industry, therefore there will not be any technically qualified people there to do the job right, so therefore the product will not be done right.

- Nevada power outages , road infrastructure - Does Nevada Energy have the energy generation capacity to supply the demands of the largest building footprint in the world? It's in the middle of nowhere guys, how can the supply chain deliver the massive amounts of raw material to the site? Power outages can easily be refuted based on scouring for Nevada local news on such events. I have tried and did not find any recent significant outage incident. As to the road infrastructure, the State recently opened the USA highway a 12 mile roadway bridging I80 with State Road 50 which he conveniently omitted it (Google Maps)

- American workers do not do quality work, Japanese workers do it better - not worth expanding on this drivel

- Japanese workers are Japanese speaking so there must be communication challenges. Tesla and Panasonic have been in this partnership since their inception and has proven to be mutually beneficial. There should be no material difference and in fact should provide huge advantages now that this same partnership is share the same building.
He may blow things out of the portion a bit, but the problem he raised are quite likely.

While there are no major outages from NV Energy recently, they do have frequent small ones. In the past 3.5 months I moved to this area, I have personally experienced three 2-3 sec ones and one few minutes long outages while I'm at home and awake, which is about 20% of my total time. NV Energy is easily the worst utility I have experienced. To what extent these minor outages do harm to GF1's production, I don't know.

And in the past, the collaboration between Tesla and Panasonic are less integrated and would of course have less communication problems. All they need to do is sign deals and Panasonic makes the cells with 100% Japaneses workers in Japan then ship them to US for 100% US workers assemble them into packs in US. Little communication needed. Now the workforce on the Panasonic side in GF1 consists of US workers so of course communication problems would be more, not less, than before.
 
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Hey guys....

Here is an article from CNBC.. Phil LeBeau.... typical crap article...
Investors giving 'cash incineration engine' Tesla a lot of rope, but may soon lose patience.

Phil LeBeau on Twitter

This headline is misleading in 2 respects... the people he is referring to are investors only in the broadest sense of the word, in that they are are long/short hedge fund, which is in an investment vehicle. But with regards to Tesla they are shorts. Furthermore, they're not "losing patience", they are actively betting against Tesla.

I have responded to him

andrew thomas on Twitter

Anyway... my thought is... I see this all the time... link bait headline... and in the article... they basically contradict themselves.

Here is a blog I wrote about reviews of the Chevy Bolt... where they make grand claims in the headline that the Bolt is a big problem for Tesla but then rein in the claims with disclaimers that largely contradict the headline.

The media on Tesla versus the Chevy Bolt – Andrew Thomas – Medium

Does anyone have any idea about how we could shame or tarnish the reputation of these journalists that do this? Or somehow incentivize them to report more honestly? I may start putting up more tweets like that... I am also trying to think of a good hash tag to express this idea... #linkbait #fakenews I don't know. The other problem is that by tweeting it's just drawing more attention to them. Any ideas?

Yeah. Ignore them. They pop up like weed. These analysts serves the hedge fund community.

My guess is, they hire 1000. Have half bet uo and half bet down. Repeat the process a few times and an oracle gets created. This oracle make some prediction where the hedge fund has already placed their bets. Rinse repeat and hedgies make money.

Now understand this next part. Some people's bet worth on this forum is bigger than the AUM of these hedge funds. They read this forum.

By bringing these useless articles to the attention of this forum, you have given the hedgies some influence.
 
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