2018 Leaf vs Model 3

[Zaxxon]

I agree with all of this today. In 6 months or a year the Model 3 will still cost $35k while the LEAF2 will cost whatever it takes to move around 30k units for CARB credits. And I would not ignore the marketing power of the lease.

Have a look at GM Bolt pricing in CA, just ~ 6 months after introduction. I expect the same for the LEAF2

That's definitely fair.

 

[pk-sd]

My 2012 leaf suffered battery deterioration over the 3 years that I leased it. It lost 3 bars on the indicator and Nissan would not address the problem. The dealer still mail me oil change coupons. I will never purchase another Nissan product.

I understand. Been there. I have had two different Leaf's, 2011 and 2013 over the years. That's why there will not be #3 Hopefully Nissan has improved the battery a bit.

 

[chronopc]

I understand. Been there. I have had two different Leaf's, 2011 and 2013 over the years. That's why there will not be #3 Hopefully Nissan has improved the battery a bit.

Does the Leaf have heated steering wheel?

 

[Zaxxon]

Yes.

 

[chronopc]

Yes.

In that case. I change my vote. Leaf 2 > Model 3.

 

[azred]

I mean you can definitely get around the limitation of not having a supercharging network. But once you are used to being able to charge 170 miles per half hour, anything else in comparison will seem unacceptable.

I would be very concerned about depending on the multiple charging vendors. While Tesla Superchargers have had issues with dependability, I feel much more comfortable depending on them than the hodgepodge of other vendors. Of course there is no guarantee Tesla will stay in the Supercharging business and I can only imagine the mess if a fleet of Tesla semis with massive batteries lines up to use them.

 

[Waiting4M3]

i would expect something similar to AP1 or better

nice demo video of autonomous driving from nissan

From what I read it seems Nissan's ProPilot is meant for HWY travel in a single lane, meaning no lane changes, and no local roads.

Nissan says the technology “supports drivers by helping control acceleration, braking and steering during single-lane driving on the highway.” In other words, it keeps the car in the lane, and maintains proper distance to the car in front during highway cruising in what would likely be classified as level two autonomy.

Unlike Tesla’s Autopilot system, ProPILOT Assist is “single lane,” meaning it won’t offer an automatic lane changing function right out of the gate—just lane keeping and essentially adaptive cruise control. But the company has plans to ramp up the system’s autonomous capabilities, saying in a press release:

In the coming years, Nissan’s ProPILOT technology will offer increasing levels of autonomy, with the system eventually able to navigate city intersections.

 

[Zaxxon]

I would be very concerned about depending on the multiple charging vendors. While Tesla Superchargers have had issues with dependability, I feel much more comfortable depending on them than the hodgepodge of other vendors. Of course there is no guarantee Tesla will stay in the Supercharging business and I can only imagine the mess if a fleet of Tesla semis with massive batteries lines up to use them.

Since it's physically impossible for a semi to use existing Superchargers (they don't fit), I wouldn't worry.

 

[Dynastar]

From what I understand the Leaf 2 still has passive battery cooling. This is a major problem in my eyes. Especially for people who live in hot climates.

Yes, still useless in extreme temperatures. However it also means hunting for a used, high-mileage, Phoenix-based lease return that will qualify for a free replacement battery under warranty will continue to be a profitable endeavor for those in the know.

 

[pk-sd]

From what I read it seems Nissan's ProPilot is meant for HWY travel in a single lane, meaning no lane changes, and no local roads.

Impressive video. Though this full autonomous functionality is not available in Gen2. Single lane driving available now. Lane change capability coming later, possibly thru software updates.

I wonder if Leaf would have full autonomous braking at all speeds as a standard feature? Tesla M3 is not without the Autopilot upgrade.

 

[206er]

As someone who would like to transition from ICE to EV and can't afford a Model S, the new Leaf definitely has my attention. Looking forward to checking it out in-person in Seattle this Friday (apparently the Leaf will be making an appearance at Denny Park, a few blocks away from my office). Interested to see what lease options Nissan will have. The hatchback, seemingly smaller width compared to the 3, and price tag all make the new Leaf super competitive with the Model 3 for me. I could care less about 0-60 times, only drive 5-6K mostly city miles per year, and want as much feature bang for my buck as possible at around $35k (before tax credit).

If Nissan offers enticing lease options, I could totally see us canceling our 3 reservation and jumping into a new Leaf.

 

[renim]

This is still like comparing a Toyota corolla to a BMW 3 series.
One is going to have cheaper lease.
after discounts entry LEAF will be about $10k less than the entry Tesla 3.
(why is only about the price of 1 option in Tesla land, ie battery upsize) so not a big deal for Tesla buyers.
but
$10K difference is about a 40% increase in price in LEAF land, that is a big deal, big opportunity cost

• they could lease twice as many vehicles, (seriously)
  
• or go on 2 overseas family holidays.
• pay some University loan costs.
• pay down home loan.

etc etc

base Tesla 3 + paint is $36k
base Nissan LEAF + some options - some haggle is about $27k
take 7k of each for rebates it approximates $20k vs $30k
big difference upwards, but small difference downwards.

 

[renim]

I foresee little overlap between Tesla 3 and Nissan LEAF 2. but they will butt against each other.
(The jam in middle will be the GM Bolt, but it should have room to move transaction price down)

 

[zmarty]

I own a Leaf. I would not buy another one. Here are some of my compounding annoyances:

• The dealerships. Are you kidding me? I knew more about the car than the salesperson. And the whole experience was horrible.
• I tried to use the "free charging for 2 years" RFID card that Nissan gives out. You have to register with each network separately and link the card to your separate accounts. Two of the websites did not even work initially, had to call customer support. The charging networks that I tried are a joke, especially the Blink "quick" chargers that don't work half the time. There is no reasonable quick charging infrastructure, it just isn't there or it does not work.
• No OTA. The software and interface are ancient.
• They purposely gimped the Bluetooth on the lower trim. The car has a huge Bluetooth logo on the dash but it does not support audio streaming. Really Nissan, you want to piss people off for $5 in parts? Do you think I will buy the higher trim to get streaming Bluetooth? Now I have to use a physical AUX cable to listen to music.

 

[SageBrush]

In that case. I change my vote. Leaf 2 > Model 3.

And it has buttons. Lots and lots of buttons

LEAF2 >> Model 3

 

[EVNow]

It will have only 150 miles range! That makes it a non-competitor with the Model 3 except to a very small group of low milage commuters who can afford a second ICE car for weekend trips.

I'm baffled by such comments. Over 60% of US households are multi-car families. Infact every one of my co-workers, neighbors, friends & family have atleast 2 cars. It makes perfect sense for one of them to be an EV. The market is huge - 60% of US households (over 60 Million), not a "very small group".

Even with the original 73/84 mile Leaf over 90% of my trips have been done in a Leaf. Definitely the 150 mile Leaf will be better.

 

[EVNow]

The dealerships. Are you kidding me? I knew more about the car than the salesperson. And the whole experience was horrible.

You didn't do the homework - and chose the wrong dealership. There are very knowledgeable Leaf sales people in the Seattle area.

Also looks like you bought S, instead of SV, if streaming audio isn't enabled.

 

[internalaudit]

I own a Leaf. I would not buy another one. Here are some of my compounding annoyances:

• The dealerships. Are you kidding me? I knew more about the car than the salesperson. And the whole experience was horrible.
• I tried to use the "free charging for 2 years" RFID card that Nissan gives out. You have to register with each network separately and link the card to your separate accounts. Two of the websites did not even work initially, had to call customer support. The charging networks that I tried are a joke, especially the Blink "quick" chargers that don't work half the time. There is no reasonable quick charging infrastructure, it just isn't there or it does not work.
• No OTA. The software and interface are ancient.
• They purposely gimped the Bluetooth on the lower trim. The car has a huge Bluetooth logo on the dash but it does not support audio streaming. Really Nissan, you want to piss people off for $5 in parts? Do you think I will buy the higher trim to get streaming Bluetooth? Now I have to use a physical AUX cable to listen to music.

Besides the battery degradation and the ones you listed, any other major gripes with quality?

 

[chronopc]

You didn't do the homework - and chose the wrong dealership. There are very knowledgeable Leaf sales people in the Seattle area.

You shouldn't have to do homework to find a competent dealership. It's their job to know the products they sell. That's why I hate dealerships. Sure they give you discounts, but you have to waste your time going to multiple ones and comparing prices and negotiating with them. Then when you bring the car in for service they will try to sell you maintenance you don't need.

 

[internalaudit]

In four years, we will find out TCO including depreciation for these two cars.