2022.20.9 - Tesla Vision impressions

[Waldokind]

I installed 2022.20.9 earlier tonight without knowing they were taking my radar away, but it dawned on me an hour later that’s the real meaning of “welcome to Tesla Vision” and then I came looking for a thread. This refreshed Model S is my first Tesla and while I love it, I am always stunned when they take features away from us…custom backup sounds, playing games while in the fast food drive thru lane (without shifting to park), the secret Energy screen, and now the perfectly-good radar. Damn.

I’ve been using the basic autopilot for my daily commute on LA freeways and have become very familiar with it in that environment. I’m going to be a harsh critic during tomorrow‘s drive. I can only hope I don‘t notice any degradation, but I’ll report back here and let you know.

 

[ughani]

I installed 2022.20.9 earlier tonight without knowing they were taking my radar away, but it dawned on me an hour later that’s the real meaning of “welcome to Tesla Vision” and then I came looking for a thread. This refreshed Model S is my first Tesla and while I love it, I am always stunned when they take features away from us…custom backup sounds, playing games while in the fast food drive thru lane (without shifting to park), the secret Energy screen, and now the perfectly-good radar. Damn.

I’ve been using the basic autopilot for my daily commute on LA freeways and have become very familiar with it in that environment. I’m going to be a harsh critic during tomorrow‘s drive. I can only hope I don‘t notice any degradation, but I’ll report back here and let you know.

Let us know your findings! gl bro

 

[MP3Mike]

custom backup sounds, playing games while in the fast food drive thru lane (without shifting to park),

For those 2 you can blame NHTSA and the people that complained to NHTSA about them. (Tesla had no choice.)

 

[JimInWI]

Is Telsa Vision able to detect cars in front of the vehicle you are following (2 cars ahead)? That is a feature I would hate to lose.

 

[MP3Mike]

Is Telsa Vision able to detect cars in front of the vehicle you are following (2 cars ahead)? That is a feature I would hate to lose.

Only if it can see it. So it will likely see a SUV in front of a sedan, but it won't normally see a sedan in front of a SUV. (That may be part of why they took away a follow distance of 1.)

 

[ATPMSD]

Is Telsa Vision able to detect cars in front of the vehicle you are following (2 cars ahead)? That is a feature I would hate to lose.

Radar never did this, it is not x-ray vision . This has always been the camera.

 

[ATPMSD]

why they took away a follow distance of 1.

In order for the camera to determine distance it can’t be too close. Radar is much more effective at determining short range distance so when they took away radar they needed to increase the minimum distance to allow the camera to work at short range.

 

[SpencerPac]

Radar never did this, it is not x-ray vision . This has always been the camera.

Actually radar could do this and did do this. Radar is pretty neat in that it is able to bounce underneath the car in front of you to "see" the car that is in front of that one and get the speed; It was not the camera that did this originally

 

[ATPMSD]

Actually radar could do this and did do this. Radar is pretty neat in that it is able to bounce underneath the car in front of you to "see" the car that is in front of that one and get the speed; It was not the camera that did this originally

Maybe, but I am pretty sure what you see on the visualization is what the camera sees. BTW, all the bouncing is what causes phantom braking in radar equipped cars.

 

[JimInWI]

Actually radar could do this and did do this. Radar is pretty neat in that it is able to bounce underneath the car in front of you to "see" the car that is in front of that one and get the speed; It was not the camera that did this originally

Correct. See this article from back in 2016 when they first enabled it.
Tesla's new radar technology for Autopilot is already saving owners from accidents

I really like this feature. With the car being lower it's tough to see around larger vehicles directly in front. For the first time I may consider holding off on a software update...

 

[Boza]

The same way you do.

That is the point: I could not see through few inches of snow.

 

[MP3Mike]

That is the point: I could not see through few inches of snow.

Nobody can. Your radar equipped Tesla doesn't either, no does any other car.

 

[ATPMSD]

Correct. See this article from back in 2016 when they first enabled it.
Tesla's new radar technology for Autopilot is already saving owners from accidents

I really like this feature. With the car being lower it's tough to see around larger vehicles directly in front. For the first time I may consider holding off on a software update...

That was a pretty cool implementation!

 

[mscott]

Maybe, but I am pretty sure what you see on the visualization is what the camera sees. BTW, all the bouncing is what causes phantom braking in radar equipped cars.

I have a 2015 S85D (i.e., AP 1, so only radar and one camera, the MobileEye system) and it did a great job "seeing" the car two ahead when they added that feature to the radar system. It also has exhibited phantom braking maybe twice (if that) in the entire 100K miles I've driven it.

We had an early Model 3 that had AP3 and radar and it was lousy with phantom braking. We now have a MY and refresh MSLR, neither of which have radar physically installed and while the phantom braking is better than it was in the 3, it is only slightly better. I haven't driven either on their new 2022.24.5 firmware to know if the problem has gotten any better, but I find it difficult to understand why the old S85D could do such an amazing job with radar yet the new cars (that still had radar) couldn't.

TACC with the vision system is a *major* step backwards from the AP1 system. Lane keeping is roughly equivalent.

 

[EVRider-FL]

I have a 2015 S85D (i.e., AP 1, so only radar and one camera, the MobileEye system) and it did a great job "seeing" the car two ahead when they added that feature to the radar system. It also has exhibited phantom braking maybe twice (if that) in the entire 100K miles I've driven it.

My 2016 HW1 S85 was less likely to phantom brake than my 2018 HW2.5-upgraded-to-HW3 S100D, but the newer car is much better at lane keeping than my old one. The old one had trouble when the lane markers weren’t clearly visible, for example in construction zones, but the new one is much more robust.

 

[Waldokind]

Let us know your findings! gl bro

The verdict: It's okay. (and I really did want to hate it)

During my usual morning/afternoon commute of 40 miles on the 110 and 405, I paid close attention to how my autosteer & TACC were behaving post-patch. On an open lane, I couldn't tell any difference. When a car merged in front of me, within the follow distance, the car slowed gently, just as it did before. The follow distance seemed a tiny bit more relaxed, but my impression was that many weeks ago in a previous patch Tesla silently moved follow distance of "1" to be more like "2" already. A secret plan to unwittingly acclimate us? I genuinely feel my car followed closer to traffic back in April/May, then it has been doing this past month. The new "2" seems close to the recent "1" in any case. When traffic came to a rapid stop, which it did twice today, the car reacted just as before, stopping firmly with adequate space.

I've always felt TACC is lazy about getting back up to speed when traffic starts moving or clears out. No change there. I'm always pressing the accelerator for some more giddy-up so as not to leave a big space between me and the car ahead. Today that felt the same as before; no worse but no better. Interestingly, pressing the accelerator triggered a simultaneous "keep your hands on the yoke" warning too many times to be coincidence.

I had zero phantom braking today but it's super-rare anyway...I've only experienced it 2x in 8 months, and I believe both times it was just being overlay cautious about a car in the next lane over.

When traffic did come to a quick stop, I felt more nervous knowing the radar wasn't there to backup the camera, but it worked okay today. In a few weeks I might get back to feeling great about being able to take this E-ticket Disneyland ride to work every day.

 

[KArnold]

In a few weeks I might get back to feeling great about being able to take this E-ticket Disneyland ride to work every day.

Shameless pic grab from someone here, I'm sure.

 

[DayTrippin]

I am holding out as long as I can. I had one of the original Model Y's when they dropped the radar. Teslavision was total crap. I patiently waited almost a year for it to get better. I sold the car and the current owner still has phantom braking (PB) issues.

I'll add another data point. I have a 2022 Model 3 (without radar). It is better than the Y was but nowhere near as good as the S has been. I live in Texas and dropping the max speed when on AP to 85 mph totally sucks. The problem is the speedo isn't accurate so 85 isn't even a true 85 mph. If you go on Texas State Highway 130, the speed limit is 85. What a cluster this is.

My Y had extreme PB issues. I drive on the same roads with the S and in 6k miles I've only only ONE PB issue in its entire life which must be some kind of miracle. My Y was had probably close to 100 on one trip from FL to TX. My S traveled the same roads and not a single issue. I credit the radar for most of that. The 3 isn't psychotic like the Y was but it doesn't it just often enough to make me want to cover the accelerator in case it brakes. The Y would almost slam on the brakes while driving on just TACC at 85 and drop you to 50 in a heartbeat it seemed.

So I am holding off on this update likely as long as I can or until I see irrefutable evidence that it won't cripple my car like the Y. I'll still take the adaptive cruise control in a 9 year old Toyota Avalon over the Teslavision option for just cruise. It is like because of Tesla the term "phantom braking" was coined so to speak. I drive probably close to 50 different rental cars each year and nobody's adaptive cruise was as bad as I experienced in the Y. The 3 is clearly not in the top tier. I know the Tesla Stans will still be drinking the Kool Aid about this but when Tesla can't even figure out not to drive the car forward with the auto direction select when there is a wall in front of the car, then I it is obvious they have issues with some of the basic. Sure, it is likely a different team working on but if you can mess up on such a major issues such as your parking sensors say there is an object in front of the car, then maybe you should select "forward" for the direction of travel.

Good luck to all of you rolling the dice on this and going with it. I'll wait a few releases and see if they get the bugs worked out.

 

[mscott]

We now have a MY and refresh MSLR, neither of which have radar physically installed and while the phantom braking is better than it was in the 3, it is only slightly better. I haven't driven either on their new 2022.24.5 firmware to know if the problem has gotten any better, but I find it difficult to understand why the old S85D could do such an amazing job with radar yet the new cars (that still had radar) couldn't.

Just tonight, on a <10 mile drive on I-25 through town, the 2022 MSLR had a relatively mild phantom braking (probably only lost about 5MPH before I got on the accelerator), fortunately with nobody near. I filed a bug report, but I suspect those are being ignored until the magic day in the far-off future when we get to test "single stack" AP.

So, no, it doesn't appear that 2022.24.5 offers any improvement. Not the I expected it would.

 

[Boza]

The verdict: It's okay. (and I really did want to hate it)

During my usual morning/afternoon commute of 40 miles on the 110 and 405, I paid close attention to how my autosteer & TACC were behaving post-patch. On an open lane, I couldn't tell any difference. When a car merged in front of me, within the follow distance, the car slowed gently, just as it did before. The follow distance seemed a tiny bit more relaxed, but my impression was that many weeks ago in a previous patch Tesla silently moved follow distance of "1" to be more like "2" already. A secret plan to unwittingly acclimate us? I genuinely feel my car followed closer to traffic back in April/May, then it has been doing this past month. The new "2" seems close to the recent "1" in any case. When traffic came to a rapid stop, which it did twice today, the car reacted just as before, stopping firmly with adequate space.

I've always felt TACC is lazy about getting back up to speed when traffic starts moving or clears out. No change there. I'm always pressing the accelerator for some more giddy-up so as not to leave a big space between me and the car ahead. Today that felt the same as before; no worse but no better. Interestingly, pressing the accelerator triggered a simultaneous "keep your hands on the yoke" warning too many times to be coincidence.

I had zero phantom braking today but it's super-rare anyway...I've only experienced it 2x in 8 months, and I believe both times it was just being overlay cautious about a car in the next lane over.

When traffic did come to a quick stop, I felt more nervous knowing the radar wasn't there to backup the camera, but it worked okay today. In a few weeks I might get back to feeling great about being able to take this E-ticket Disneyland ride to work every day.

Thanks for the detailed report! How was the night driving? Did you have to disable auto high beams every time you enable the AP/FSD?