2023 M3 RWD + Erange Tires = M3 Highland range?

[MasterC17]

Tesla builds cars in China and equips them with Chinese made tires...these cars are sold into Canada, Australia, the EU and elsewhere. Are these cars and tires inferior to US made Tesla cars and tires?

You made the same point we're trying to make. It's not about the fact they're built in China. It's about the factory and the quality control of the company making the product.

Sailun has no reputation for making high quality tires in a high quality factory with high quality control standards, and is also based in China. All of the evidence that has been collected on similar tires concludes they are subpar. So, it would be a bit of a jump to say that the Sailun are better without any actual testing performed.

 

[DuncanM]

You made the same point we're trying to make. It's not about the fact they're built in China. It's about the factory and the quality control of the company making the product.

Sailun has no reputation for making high quality tires in a high quality factory with high quality control standards, and is also based in China. All of the evidence that has been collected on similar tires concludes they are subpar. So, it would be a bit of a jump to say that the Sailun are better without any actual testing performed.

I suspect that it really is about them being made in China. I haven't seen any adverse reports on their Erange tires. I looked hard for such reports before I purchased them. I also notice that no one else is pointing to adverse reports on Erange tires. What I do find online is comment after comment, from people who haven't tried them, about them being subpar based solely on their country of origin.

You can find NHTSA tire recalls on all the major tire brands, including some of their higher end tires, so I guess quality issues aren't confined to Chinese made tires, nor is a high price a guarantee of safety or quality.

Erange tires have been on the market for over a year now. and they're sold all over the world yet no adverse reports.

 

[MasterC17]

I suspect that it really is about them being made in China. I haven't seen any adverse reports on their Erange tires. I looked hard for such reports before I purchased them. I also notice that no one else is pointing to adverse reports on Erange tires. What I do find online is comment after comment, from people who haven't tried them, about them being subpar based solely on their country of origin.

You can find NHTSA tire recalls on all the major tire brands, including some of their higher end tires, so I guess quality issues aren't confined to Chinese made tires, nor is a high price a guarantee of safety or quality.

Erange tires have been on the market for over a year now. and they're sold all over the world yet no adverse reports.

Whatever helps you justify your purchase. I already pointed to a source that clearly dispels your sentiment.

 

[DuncanM]

Whatever helps you justify your purchase. I already pointed to a source that clearly dispels your sentiment.

Which source? The YT review you linked to didn't mention E-range tires, nor are these the least expensive tires that I could have put on my M3.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Tesla builds cars in China and equips them with Chinese made tires...these cars are sold into Canada, Australia, the EU and elsewhere. Are these cars and tires inferior to US made Tesla cars and tires?

I hope they aren't, but I can't say with any certainty one way or the other.

By no means was I trying to say "china made stuff sucks or is inferior", but was trying to put a counterpoint on Mielko's implication that the US is already getting lots of its tires from China which was just plain false then(2018) and is very likely still false today.

 

[DrChaos]

=eap tires.

I also find it highly unlikely that these Sailun's are MORE efficient than the Michelin MXM4's. Unfortunately, there's virtually no way to do a controlled test without using multiple cars and multiple sets of new tires

I think it's possible for the Sailun's to be more efficient than a 10 year old tire design.

There are machines which do quantitative controlled tests of rolling resistance. The EU tire reviews have them, and they generally correlate well with efficiency observed.

Aerodynamics is significantly more difficult, but plays less a role in tire choices, though wheel & car shape matters significantly.

 

[MasterC17]

Which source? The YT review you linked to didn't mention E-range tires, nor are these the least expensive tires that I could have put on my M3.

There are several other similar category tire manufacturers represented in that test, and there's no evidence to suggest that Sailun stands out from them.

Looking at testing done on other Sailun tires, they consistently rank near the bottom, and a far cry from the performance of other Michelin's.

48/53
39/50
46/54
19/19
38/53

Given the performance of Sailun's other tires, it would be a bit of a surprise if the E-Range fairs considerably better.

If they work for you, then the point is moot, but advertising these as a better alternative to the Michelin MXM4 seems to stray from reality without any objective testing having been performed. I would be interested to see those tests when they do hopefully release, and it would be great if they did indeed perform admirably. But, until then, I would not consider these at all. Safety is more important than a few hundred dollars, IMO.

 

[rayrevolver]

I remember when I thought I would NEVER buy the "cheap" Korean Hankook tires. And look at them today, bringing the fight to the French!

My point is that if a Chinese company wants to make someting to compete, they can. For us consumers, its harder to understand if the new ERange is more of the old/cheap tires or Sailun making a concerted effort to challenge the top tier tire manufacturers.

Until we get some good head-to-head testing, we will never know.

While its unfair for me to say this, the MXM4 tires on my M3LR were the worst tires I have ever driven on in my entire life. With ~12000 miles and some uneven wear (3/32-5/32 across the tire) they were dangerous with respect to wet grip.

Tire Rack wet braking test results:

Tested together:
MXM4 146 ft
CC2 124 ft

Test together:
GY EDGT 105 ft
Pirelli Elect 125 ft

...doesn't inspire confidence in the wet. So far it seems like Hankook Ion Evo falls somewhere in the middle of the above models, with MXM4 efficiency but better wet performance. Hopefully Tire Rack can test them and give us something to chew on.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I remember when I thought I would NEVER buy the "cheap" Korean Hankook tires. And look at them today, bringing the fight to the French!

My point is that if a Chinese company wants to make someting to compete, they can. For us consumers, its harder to understand if the new ERange is more of the old/cheap tires or Sailun making a concerted effort to challenge the top tier tire manufacturers.

Until we get some good head-to-head testing, we will never know.

While its unfair for me to say this, the MXM4 tires on my M3LR were the worst tires I have ever driven on in my entire life. With ~12000 miles and some uneven wear (3/32-5/32 across the tire) they were dangerous with respect to wet grip.

Tire Rack wet braking test results:

Tested together:
MXM4 146 ft
CC2 124 ft

Test together:
GY EDGT 105 ft
Pirelli Elect 125 ft

...doesn't inspire confidence in the wet. So far it seems like Hankook Ion Evo falls somewhere in the middle of the above models, with MXM4 efficiency but better wet performance. Hopefully Tire Rack can test them and give us something to chew on.

Exactly. Tires of today are not what they were before. Hankook for one has definitely gone upmarket with their iON EVO line.

There are still some really bad tires being produced today. However, there are some brands that were known for inferior tires in the past that have improved their recent offerings dramatically.

 

[DuncanM]

I remember when I thought I would NEVER buy the "cheap" Korean Hankook tires. And look at them today, bringing the fight to the French!

My point is that if a Chinese company wants to make someting to compete, they can. For us consumers, its harder to understand if the new ERange is more of the old/cheap tires or Sailun making a concerted effort to challenge the top tier tire manufacturers.

Until we get some good head-to-head testing, we will never know.

While its unfair for me to say this, the MXM4 tires on my M3LR were the worst tires I have ever driven on in my entire life. With ~12000 miles and some uneven wear (3/32-5/32 across the tire) they were dangerous with respect to wet grip.

Tire Rack wet braking test results:

Tested together:
MXM4 146 ft
CC2 124 ft

Test together:
GY EDGT 105 ft
Pirelli Elect 125 ft

...doesn't inspire confidence in the wet. So far it seems like Hankook Ion Evo falls somewhere in the middle of the above models, with MXM4 efficiency but better wet performance. Hopefully Tire Rack can test them and give us something to chew on.

With respect to wear my experience with the Michelins was similar.

I had to replace two of the original 4 Michelin tires, as one suffered a puncture that couldn't be safely repaired so I replaced two tires to have a matched set on one axle. I kept the best one as a spare and I had to use it to replace another that wouldn't hold TP.

Several tires had uneven wear, one to the point where it wasn't legal and had to be replaced after our drive across Canada; Tesla spent a couple of hours investigating my suspension and wheel alignment, and couldn't find any issues, which is when I decided to get the Erange tires.

 

[DuncanM]

I started this thread with the title:

2023 M3 RWD + Erange Tires = M3 Highland range?​

to speculate that the increase in range on the Highland M3 RWD was mainly due to tires with reduced rolling resistance (which is claimed for the Erange tires). as the power train/HV battery is identical, to the existing model and the very modest reduction in drag isn't likely to account for the increased range.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I started this thread with the title:

2023 M3 RWD + Erange Tires = M3 Highland range?​

to speculate that the increase in range on the Highland M3 RWD was mainly due to tires with reduced rolling resistance (which is claimed for the Erange tires). as the power train/HV battery is identical, to the existing model and the very modest reduction in drag isn't likely to account for the increased range.

It is important to note that the Highland Model 3s with the 18” wheels use a Michelin tire but it isn’t the old Primacy MXM4. It is the new E.Primacy that promises the best efficiency of any tire in its class. At least, when the press release came out that was what they said.

I believe the new Hankook iON EVO AS tires can match their efficiency now. Maybe these e.range tires can too?

 

[3sr+buyer]

...doesn't inspire confidence in the wet. So far it seems like Hankook Ion Evo falls somewhere in the middle of the above models, with MXM4 efficiency but better wet performance. Hopefully Tire Rack can test them and give us something to chew on.

It would be nice if Tire Rack (or someone) would do a full comparison all of the "EV efficient performance" tires under the same conditions, so we can see a full comparison of efficiency, performance, and comfort tradeoffs between the various tire models.

(Yes, it would be nice to know if Sailun is now trying to make overall good tires instead of the minimally adequate low cost models it seems to have been selling before, or if the ERange is just another of the latter that does one thing (efficiency) well.)

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I have to question these new e.Primacy tires. At least the old MXM4 tires were A rated for both traction and temperature.

These new e.Primacy tires are only “B” rated for traction and they only have a 340 tread wear rating.

Those specs aren’t good at all. Even Hankook is “A” rated for both traction and temperature. It is also a 600 tread wear rating.

 

[DrChaos]

I have to question these new e.Primacy tires. At least the old MXM4 tires were A rated for both traction and temperature.

These new e.Primacy tires are only “B” rated for traction and they only have a 340 tread wear rating.

Those specs aren’t good at all. Even Hankook is “A” rated for both traction and temperature. It is also a 600 tread wear rating.

Are you comparing european e.Primacy tire-testing letters vs US letters? They aren't comparable (the EU tests are better and more rigorous and include rolling resistance).

e.Primacy is a EU summer EV tire. The Hankook iON EVO summer is the best comparator.

The Hankook iON all-season is probably the best deal though---it has full tread depth (which usually reduces efficiency to start) and yet all reports show it has great efficiency in practice. The e.Primacy has a low tread depth like the MXM4 all seasons.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Are you comparing european e.Primacy tire-testing letters vs US letters? They aren't comparable (the EU tests are better and more rigorous and include rolling resistance).

e.Primacy is a EU summer EV tire. The Hankook iON EVO summer is the best comparator.

The Hankook iON all-season is probably the best deal though---it has full tread depth (which usually reduces efficiency to start) and yet all reports show it has great efficiency in practice. The e.Primacy has a low tread depth like the MXM4 all seasons.

That is a not a US tire but it appears to have the Traction and Temperature ratings on the tire. Those same markings appeared on the old Michelin tires and they said "A" for both traction and Temperature. There is no question that the new e.Primacy have a worse wet traction rating than before. That have sacrificed wet traction for efficiency for these new e.Primacy tires. It appears that other brands have not done that and may still have very similar efficiencies.

 

[804son]

I'll trade range for safety, every time. More range is just at the next supercharger, If I miss on the safety aspect, that could be "game over".

 

[3sr+buyer]

Are you comparing european e.Primacy tire-testing letters vs US letters? They aren't comparable (the EU tests are better and more rigorous and include rolling resistance).

e.Primacy is a EU summer EV tire.

The e.Primacy tire in the photos appears to be a summer tire (no "M+S" marking indicating an all-season tire), presumably for sale in countries where summer tires are the norm (unlike in the US, where all-season tires are the norm). However, it does bear the US UTQG 340/B/A markings as well as a DOT number, presumably in case Michelin or Tesla decides to sell the tire or cars equipped with the tire in the US.

Also of note is that it has a "T2" marking (so probably not the first iteration of a Tesla-specific version, although it may be that they are continuing from T0 and T1 used on the Primacy MXM4) and that it marked "Made in China", which makes sense if it is on a Tesla Model 3 Highland that was made in China.

 

[jwalkingjon2]

Got these Sailun's today and I now notice a humming sound at higher speeds, Not sure if it's break in period or maybe bad balancing by the techs. I got these + alignment and the hum is so loud at 60-80mph. Going to see tech again to make sure they balanced them right. I see online people say it could be wheel bearings but my last tires didn't sound like that and they weren't loud enough they'd "cover up" a bad wheel bearing so not sure what the deal is. The ride is nice though and handles well in snow.

 

[XPsionic]

Got these Sailun's today and I now notice a humming sound at higher speeds, Not sure if it's break in period or maybe bad balancing by the techs. I got these + alignment and the hum is so loud at 60-80mph. Going to see tech again to make sure they balanced them right. I see online people say it could be wheel bearings but my last tires didn't sound like that and they weren't loud enough they'd "cover up" a bad wheel bearing so not sure what the deal is. The ride is nice though and handles well in snow.

Keep us updated, but from experience, I've never heard tire noise getting better as the tires wear in. They always just get louder and louder as they age for me.