-25 celcius has eaten 66% of my range

[AWDtsla]

Regardless of the debated range, I think one core point is that Tesla should build more dense supercharger concentrations in places that get very cold, for safety reasons.

Exactly. I thought certain trips were on the edge of possible, but knowing what I know now, I would _never_ take the Tesla on long trips in these areas. I've sent emails directly to Tesla about building superchargers and I got some form letter about how they use "advanced modeling" to figure out where to put superchargers. Great.

But namely:

1. Stopping in cold weather destroys whatever limited range you thought you had. evtripplanner/etc estimates do not include warm-up consumption.
1.a. Pack heater is small, can't use regen power for heating when regen is disabled, and the pack is not insulated or using other means of heat preservation (like Prius has a coolant thermos)
2. Snow on the road causes huge unplanned energy usage
3. Charging from AC becomes a serious problem when it's really cold out, adding multiple hours to charge times
4. If you turn range mode on, you're going to be really cold. It's not like it's California and you can just crack open a window because of "reduced climate control performance".

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I agree with the above. This winter with 7.1 I sometimes leave for work with a car that is charging or has just finished, in a heated garage, and still have a regen limiter somewhere between 30-60 kW. Pre-heating the cabin while plugged in does not seem to change anything.

It often stays present during my entire commute.

I did not see this with previous FW (this is my 3rd winter with my P85).

The pack heater will shut-off before long before full regen temperature. I've also done commutes with regen basically off for the entire duration, let's say if you've left it in range mode.

 

[Jamriman]

Makes the Volt look like a life saver! Just kiddin, but it does solve this problem.

 

[Matias]

Model S 70D

So it is -25 celcius (-35 with wind chill). I started out with a cold battery from my garage with 337km rated range. I drove local and highway during the day and the actual range was only 115km. This equates to a range loss of 66%. Driving style was generally slow acceleration due to snow and slippery conditions.

Did you park during the day so that car got cold again?

 

[vchadha]

Did you park during the day so that car got cold again?

Yes, twice for an hour and once for 30mins.

 

[Matias]

Yes, twice for an hour and once for 30mins.

Ok. That explains the big loss.

Maybe Tesla should make thermally insulated packs for cold climates, so that pack shouldn't lose warm so quickly. IIRC someone was experimenting with insulation.

 

[Cottonwood]

See Realistic Range Expectations in Crummy Winter Weather - Page 2 for my description of some winter hypermiling 2.5 years ago.

I used what some would consider extreme techniques, but made it 228 mile, climbing a net of almost 2,000 feet in Colorado winter conditions in a Sig P85. There is now a 70 Amp J1772 in Salida that greatly relieves tensions on this route.

 

[FrederikBoivin]

I drove from Quebec City to Montreal Friday morning at 105 km/hr with average conditions of -22C and 8 km/hr headwinds. It took 396 rated km for 260 actual km, so the loss was just a third. The roads were dry, though, and nothing like today's swirling winds. The car was also in a 15C garage where I overinflated the tires to 50 psi.

Sorry about your experience today. We could use more than 1.5 Supercharger sites in Quebec to alleviate range loss due to severe weather. If you have concerns about specific trips, evtripplanner's range estimates are much more accurate the car's navigation system in the Winter.

i email tesla every week for them to add SC... Please do so too!!!

i drive a lot - 60k km per year, and in the winter time, i usually need 1.5 more range than what i drive. If 200 km are in front on me, i need and use 300...

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Try to finish charging right before you leave as charging warms the battery. Also if you are connected to power, prewarm the interior before you leave also to help reduce consumption on the road.

+1...

 

[Barry]

Thanks dgpcolorado,
Definitely the right thing to do.
I wonder if there are any members of the Musk clan who live in the area .
I also wonder if Elon himself spends some of his holidays in the area too...

Interesting question. Kimball Musk, Elon's brother, has a restaurant in Boulder. Don't know where exactly he lives.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

Tesla did do that here in Colorado, although I presume that it was more because of mountains and snow than cold (-25ºC is unusual here in the daytime).

-25C daytime is unusual in Southern Ontario as well. Much more common in the northern Praries. This cold snap brought out all of the posts that one might expect on a first really cold bit of winter weather. Our neck of the woods IS finally getting more Super Chargers, with Port Hope, Grimsby (opening soon) and Oakville (opening soon(?)), but most of the rest of the country needs more, to cut range anxiety.

 

[David29]

Thanks to regen, stop 'n go doesn't usually eat into EV range as much a highway driving, but I guess your regen was limited due to cold.

Oh, I disagree with that. My experience is just the opposite. Local, short trips consume a lot of power because the car's cabin has to be heated every time you get back into the car after a stop, which takes considerable energy on a cold day. Personally I found that longer trips are more efficient. Of course, mys statement is qualitative, as was yours. So I suppose the energy use comparison depends upon how long the local trips are, how long the stops are, and how fast the travel is for both local and highway trips. As usual, devil is in the details...

 

[Beltsbear]

ICE cars can easily lose the same amount of range when it's that cold. They just don't tell you about it as clearly.

No, they really don't. On any long trip it is going to be less then 15% with no special measures. In that kind of cold covering the grill helps regain some of the loss and also an engine block heater helps as well.

 

[CHGolferJim]

I've seen 35% loss in 20*F temps around the Carolinas and Virginia (mostly interstate at 70-75 mph cruise control; rated miles used / actual miles driven, without preheating). Today we're off on a 120-mile round trip and I've charged to 100% at 239 rated miles and will preheat to 80* for 30 minutes while plugged in to see if it makes a difference.

Chapel Hill to Winston-Salem r/t = 200 rated / 160 actual = +25% at 28*F, mostly 70mph but had to take a detour for last 30 miles on a 55-60 mph road, so not conclusive.

 

[flankspeed8]

No, they really don't. On any long trip it is going to be less then 15% with no special measures. In that kind of cold covering the grill helps regain some of the loss and also an engine block heater helps as well.

My former car was a TDI and I can tell you it took about a 30% hit in the subzero temp range. As an added bonus, it spewed thousands of times the legal limit of noxious exhaust to boot. It has been said that one of the reasons for range drops in with the colder temps has to do with air density at colder temps. Obviously ICE cars are susceptible to this also.

 

[davecolene0606]

Hey I thought like every single parking space has a plug for engine block heaters...

Sooo, can't they warm a battery too? I mean if they can keep oil from having the consistency of bitumen...

Just sayin, eh?

 

[AWDtsla]

No, they really don't. On any long trip it is going to be less then 15% with no special measures. In that kind of cold covering the grill helps regain some of the loss and also an engine block heater helps as well.

Eh.. In the winter you utilize the waste heat from engine, thus making the car MORE efficient in terms of stored energy put to work. In an EV you have 2 additional large power draws, pack heating and cabin heating.

You have to get very very very cold before considering covering grills on an ICE.

 

[RiverBrick]

Oh, I disagree with that. My experience is just the opposite. Local, short trips consume a lot of power because the car's cabin has to be heated every time you get back into the car after a stop, which takes considerable energy on a cold day. Personally I found that longer trips are more efficient.....

I agree with you. I mean stop n go traffic, not drive, stop for a break, n go. Of course if you can plug into even something as weak as 120v it will prevent much of the range loss associated with stops.

 

[Miousic]

Wait... you have electricity in Canada?!

No, we export it to USA! [emoji4]

 

[Miousic]

Must be additional factors such as heavy snow, heavy wind or rain for such a bad efficiency to occur. I have driven my P85D just over 300km without issues in those temperatures at over 100kph average speed. Not hypermiling either. Of course using range mode.

I have _never_ seen anywhere close to 50% reduction in range even en -20c temps on the highway. Worst I've had was maybe a 33% reduction in heavy snow, winds and cold temps.

city-driving with stop and go traffic is another story. Easily more than double the energy used per km. But then I rarely do more than 200km of city-driving

No snow, warm car... 45% lost. Confirmed by Tesla service with many other owners.

 

[511keV]

Definitely saw a 30ish percent range hit in Northeastern Massachusetts this weekend with the extremely low temperatures.. Was averaging over 400 WHr/mi at 65 mph and cabin heat set to 64F. Car sat out for part of the day so the battery was quite cold in the afternoon. As a result, not only was there no regen, the max power available was about 75kW which increased to about 300 kW after 20 minutes of highway driving. I'd never seen such a large power limit before this.

 

[AWDtsla]

Definitely saw a 30ish percent range hit in Northeastern Massachusetts this weekend with the extremely low temperatures.. Was averaging over 400 WHr/mi at 65 mph and cabin heat set to 64F. Car sat out for part of the day so the battery was quite cold in the afternoon. As a result, not only was there no regen, the max power available was about 75kW which increased to about 300 kW after 20 minutes of highway driving. I'd never seen such a large power limit before this.

That usage was pretty low given the temperatures...