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70D or 85D, rear vs 4 wheel drive: owner experiences?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by mgrey, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. mgrey

    mgrey New Member

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    Hi guys,

    I seem to be having an extreme dilemma:


    • Is the 85D worth its €11K premium over the 70D?
    • Is the dual motor 4 wheel drive worth €5K over a rear motor?

    I'm just wondering why one would take e.g. an 85D dual motor over a 70D read motor?

    Best,

    Michael
     
  2. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    If it's a 70D it's AWD, not rear motor. A 70 would be a RWD.

    That depends on a lot of things
    -Acceleration. The 70D is plenty fast, though some people want more (85D, or higher)
    -Range - do you drive often where the extra 30 miles would be worth the $10k for you?
    -Supercharger times, again, do you drive long enough where the faster supercharging times would make a difference? (there's a spreadsheet somewhere, and basically on a 500 mile trip, the difference between the 70D and 85D charging times comes down to 20 minutes more. A 500 mlie trip is already a good 7.5 hours without charging stops, so it matters, but it's not that huge).
    -Degradation - after desegregation sets in, would the 70kwh have enough range for you?

    After you answer those questions, you should be able to figure out which one is ideal for you. Have you test driven either?
     
  3. jsm

    jsm Member

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    Its a pretty personal decision. I have a RWD 70 - It is perfect for my needs, but others need more range or speed. I do mainly city driving - averaging about 40 miles a day, so don't need the extra range. Also it a lot faster than anything I have ever driven - I would get in a lot of trouble, if my car went any faster..... Thats just me.
     
  4. Tuan

    Tuan Member

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    Handling on the D is noticeably better. Because of this, Autosteer of Autopilot is superior. OTOH, you get more room in the frunk with non D. Take your pick
     
  5. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    I've driven non-AP RWD Tesla's, and the speed and angle of turn required to destabilize them, I don't see autosteer handling at all. So I'm not sure it's relevant.
     
  6. xborg

    xborg Member

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    I think you should test it.
    Difference between P85 and P85D is noticeable. Performance-wise and handling.
    You should test 70 and 70D to see if there is any difference for you.
    At the end, it is all about if you are happy with your car.
    I was in a similar dilemma, I went for 85D recently.
     
  7. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    Wait, what? How so?
     
  8. mwulff

    mwulff Member

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    I own an autopilot enabled RWD 85 Model S and I have driven extensively in both the 85D and the P85D. Personally I see no reason for either unless you live a place with a harsh winter climate. I live in Denmark and rear wheel drive is more than adequate when paired with a set of good winter tires.

    Now my personal reason for not buying AWD are that there is a "loud" whining sound coming from the front motor/inverter that really intrudes into the cabin. Compared to a RWD car it is quite annoying. The other reason was cost saving, it wasn't worth paying 5000 euros to get AWD and an annoying sound.

    As for performance the AWD cars are faster from 0-100 km/h but all Model S cars are fast enough for any common driving situation. Personally I think Tesla should change the marketing to read:

    Horsepower: Adequate.
    0-60: Fast (S85), Faster (85D), Fastest (P85D), Warp-drive enabled (P90DL).

    There are no differences in the workings of autopilot on AWD compared to RWD cars.

    I bought an 85 because the alternative was a 60 kwh car. Today with the RWD 70 kWh I would probably have bought that if I had to do it over again.
     
  9. stevers

    stevers Member

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    If you're contemplating the 70 vs 85, then I'm assuming you don't have the desire or the means to go with a P85/90. I am also assuming that you do not need to max out your range. This is my situation as well. I doubt I'll drive more than 200 miles/day. And as much as I like the acceleration, it is not usable in my day to day life. I get my acceleration jollys on the track.

    From a 70 rear to an 85d is $15k. I don't see $15k worth of value in either handling, power, or range, so I ended up with a 70d. The dual motor slightly increases the range, handling, and acceleration for $5k, so I saw it as good value.
     
  10. tomp

    tomp Member

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    I haven't driven a D, but my understanding is handling in weather (rain/snow) is improved. I had thought that was a key advantage
     
  11. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I absolutely love the handling/traction of the 70D in the rain with the stock 19inch tires and the coil-suspension.

    It's awesome being able to accelerate without even thinking about losing rear traction.

    Partly it's the weight distribution, but I'm sure the all-wheel drive plays a large part in it.

    If I lived in Europe I'd get the all-wheel drive.

    The only thing I'm bummed about is I was hoping the All-Wheel drive would have completely separate drive units where one could limp me home if the other one failed. That doesn't seem to be the case though.
     
  12. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    I consider handling and traction to be different things.
    The speed at which you can go into a corner has very little to do with the number of driven wheels.

    I absolutely agree that acceleration (straight or out of a corner) would be drastically different in the snow.
     
  13. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

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    Just so we are clear - it is also drastically different in the rain. Tesla ownership is biased to dry areas (you know who you are) that the rain issue is often forgotten....
     
  14. cgiGuy

    cgiGuy Member

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    Went from a 60 (RWD, of course) to a 85D, and tested a 70D in the process. I can tell you that at times with the 60 if I were pulling out into a busy road and trying to get up to speed quickly, traction control would often kick in and create a momentary lack of power during the turn/acceleration. This doesn't exist with the D. It just.. goes. The pull around a turn is pretty unreal. You keep waiting for the rear end to fishtail a little and it doesn't happen.

    And yes, here in Texas, we've gotten a little rain in the last couple weeks. Still, launches from stop signs (with no cars nearby, just to be safe) feels almost like it's on dry pavement.

    Can't tell you if the jump from 70 to 85 would be worth it for you, but I can say I wouldn't buy this car again without dual motors.
     
  15. e-FTW

    e-FTW New electron smell

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    Absolutely agreed. My last two cars were Subaru WRXs, in that was in Montreal. So I know what you mean for wet pavement as well as snow and ice.
     
  16. DrPhoton

    DrPhoton Member

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    I wasn't sure about the D model either, but I've driven my friend's P85D enough to know that I like how it drives. The extra range and additional acceleration are what convinced me to go with the 85D rather than a RWD version.
     
  17. ibdb

    ibdb 3 Car Garage and a 5 Car Life

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    I have an 85D that's currently at Tesla for a tweak to a window to fix a wind noise issue. Tesla gave me an 85 as a loaner, so I have a little bit of experience driving each.

    My car has 19" wheels and the loaner has 21", so that could be a part of it, but my perception is that the traction in the 85D is vastly superior. Weather has been rainy the last few days around here, and I really notice the difference between the two cars in conditions that reduce traction. I regularly use a short freeway on ramp that requires rather aggressive acceleration to get to freeway speed and it has never been an issue in my 85D. I found the rear of the 85 slipping away from me and the car starting to go a bit sideways in a way that I've never had happen before in the 85D. There are a couple of places I've intentionally tried to get the 85D a little loose just out of curiosity and never had much success. I can say with complete confidence that the 85 will break the tires loose in places where the 85D is rock solid.
     
  18. Caligula

    Caligula Member

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    You really need to test them back to back. As per our Owner Advisor's suggestion we started with the 70D for the test drive, then tried the 85D followed by the P85D. We both found that the 70D was too slow for out tastes, and that the 85D was a good compromise between the performance of the P85D and the cost of the 70D... and because of this, I'm piloting a very nice 85D today. Of course your priorities may very well be different than ours, so its important you experience this for yourself. Just be sure to drive it like you own it on the test drive. The wife had to go back a second time because the felt regret in being too timid with the throttle and not getting a real feel for the car.
     
  19. chriSharek

    chriSharek Member

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    Max has hit on the best points above. Because of these reasons specifically, I ordered the 85D instead of the 70D. Also, I test drove the 70D and felt that it's acceleration is not that much better than my Volt's. The 85D is MUCH faster than the 70D, IMHO.
     
  20. 3mp_kwh

    3mp_kwh Member

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    I have a different take. Tesla's traction control system practically forbids slip, whether you get RWD, or AWD. In rain, I generally found that even if I look for trouble, I can't find it in either the RWD or the AWD MS's that I've had. I'd give more credit to the snow difference, but even then, snow tires make paying up for AWD less than mandatory.
     

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