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90 and 75 battery packs getting nerfed early???

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Ok, so here are the screenshots:

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I'm willing to bet money that your battery is also throttled, just differently. The old 85 packs are throttled differently. The peak rate is the same as when new, but the taper is faster and earlier. What is your charge rate at a supercharger when you battery is at 50%?

Here is a graph showing old vs new
View attachment 407512
I would take that bet.

Per TeslaFi data, I compared 3 instances of SuC (at the same location) over the last 50k miles on my car...

Date___SoC___kW___SoC___kW__26%-80%__26%-90%
Sep'16__47%__70____55%___60___41:20_____55:19
Feb'18__47%__72____55%___62___38:00_____51:02
Dec'18__47%__69____55%___59___36:59_____49:01

Note that I could not compare at 50% as you requested, since the first charge did not have a data point at 50% SoC. All data points fall reasonably close to the old "rule of thumb" for 85kWh batteries of kW = 120 - SoC.

More importantly, the total charge time from 26% to 80% or 90% has actually decreased over the last 50k miles.
 
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According to my TeslaFi logs, I've Supercharged my 90 pack a total of 6672 kWh over 213 sessions. I have yet to see any throttling - I've recently seen as high as 115 kW's or so. My pack is a v3 pack.

BS?

Side question: If I sign up for TeslaFi now, will it see how many kWh the car has been supercharged or DC charged from day one? Or just from the moment I sign up? Just curious to know if the car has an onboard "meter" that TeslaFi can read?
 
According to my TeslaFi logs, I've Supercharged my 90 pack a total of 6672 kWh over 213 sessions. I have yet to see any throttling - I've recently seen as high as 115 kW's or so. My pack is a v3 pack.

BS?

Only the V1 and maybe V2 90 packs were effected.

None of this is new news. There have been rage threads on this going back several years.

I had throttling on my P85D. Couldn't charge more that 60K. Algaire (sp?) at the Fremont Service center told me that it was due to high repeated DC charging and was by design. I told him that it didn't effect 85 batteries and that my problem was different and that I suspected it was a cooling louver which was no longer opening up when I charged.

He said it wasn't and that if there was any malfunction it would have shown up as an error on the dash.

I made another appointment with the service center in Dublin and brought it in the following week. Before I even left, they told me there had been a "louver" alert for the last 4 months and that was the reason for the reduced charging....basically confirming my suspicion.

After they replaced the louver, I was back to 117KW with low SOCs.
 
I'm willing to bet money that your battery is also throttled, just differently. The old 85 packs are throttled differently. The peak rate is the same as when new, but the taper is faster and earlier. What is your charge rate at a supercharger when you battery is at 50%?

Here is a graph showing old vs new
View attachment 407512

I can confirm my P85DL's new vs current taper looks just like that although it hasn't gotten anywhere from 45K to 90K miles.

EDIT: slight correction. That graph shows a difference more than mine.

For example, when new, I got 74KW at 54%. I now get 68KW at 54% at 90K miles, so it's not as wide a difference as your graph shows. I'm sure it will grow as the battery ages and the IR goes up which will result in more heat.

My understanding is that in this case, it's not that they changed the software to provide a lower rate charging curve but that it was the existing software adapting to increased IR causing the temperature to rise higher at x amount of input old vs new.
 
We returned our S90D on 6/4/19 with 44,817 miles under the Resale Value Guarantee.

I maintained complete data regarding how much and where I charged the car. We consumed 19,835 total kWh. That's a rate of 443 Wh/mi delivered to the car. The car's trip screen showed our consumption rate as 342 Wk/mi. We drive fast on our travels, typically 75-80mph, and our most frequent destination Mammoth includes 8,000 feet elevation gain with some recovery of that on the return home.

63% of our charging was at home, 8% at the local Burbank supercharger and 29% at road trip superchargers. Free supercharging saved us $1,700. Home charging cost 6.3 cents/mile and I estimate that we saved $5,400 vs. a 20mpg gas car over those 38 months.

TeslaRatedRangeDate.jpg


The above shows battery degradation from 294 rated miles in April 2016 to 272 rated miles in June 2019. That's 7.5%, which seems normal for a 90 but high for other Tesla batteries.

Our battery was charged to 95+% frequently on our travels, 26x at home before departure and 40x at superchargers. At home the default charge rate was 70%.

Before buying the car I downloaded a chart from a S85 owner on this forum and used it to estimate real world range based upon speed, temperature and altitude change, and how long supercharge stops might take. The real world range achieved averaged 105% of the estimates, though there were some underestimates due to high winds, erratic speeds etc.

I always monitored charge rate for the first 5-10 minutes after we plugged into a supercharger to see that we were getting a reasonable number, but once we were I didn't pay much attention to the exact taper curve. I did notice that out max rate through 2018 was 105kW but that it was only 93kW on 8 charge stops in April. Thus I assumed I was now one of the "nerfed" 90 battery owners.

For our final May trip to Mammoth, Death Valley and Las Vegas, I monitored the taper curve and compared it to the on for the 85 which I had downloaded in late 2015.
TeslaCharge Rate.jpg


In May the pattern of charge rate was different than in April. It was about 90kW at 10% and rose gradually to 100kw at 45%, then started to taper. I observed this exact pattern at both Lone Pine May 25 and Beatty May 29. The downloaded curve for the 85 has a faster charge rate of 115kW at low SoC but its taper starts at 20% and its rate is lower than mine from 40-75%

While I recorded rated miles added at all 143 of my supercharge stops, I had recorded time spent supercharging at only 40 of them. Those sessions started at an average of 14% SoC and finished at an average of 74% SoC. The curve differences above/below 40% SoC offset so my actual charge time averaged 98% of expected over those 40 sessions. In only 3 sessions did I have materially slowed charging speed due to being paired with another car. There were other paired occasions but the other car was well into its taper so I was charging normally. In summer/fall 2017 there were a few cases where the supercharger was throttled to 60Kw by heat, but when I saw that I moved to another stall and always found one operating properly.
 
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We returned our S90D on 6/4/19 with 44,817 miles under the Resale Value Guarantee.

I maintained complete data regarding how much and where I charged the car. We consumed 19,835 total kWh. That's a rate of 443 Wh/mi delivered to the car. The car's trip screen showed our consumption rate as 342 Wk/mi. We drive fast on our travels, typically 75-80mph, and our most frequent destination Mammoth includes 8,000 feet elevation gain with some recovery of that on the return home.

63% of our charging was at home, 8% at the local Burbank supercharger and 29% at road trip superchargers. Free supercharging saved us $1,700. Home charging cost 6.3 cents/mile and I estimate that we saved $5,400 vs. a 20mpg gas car over those 38 months.

View attachment 415911

The above shows battery degradation from 294 rated miles in April 2016 to 272 rated miles in June 2019. That's 7.5%, which seems normal for a 90 but high for other Tesla batteries.
 
This is not fantasy. Have another data point.

17’ S75D exclusively fast charged the first year of ownership, approx 20K miles and while home charging has since been established, the vehicle has a max charge rate of 81kW at any and all Superchargers now in four different states, regardless of temperature, SoC, shared circuits ect. It has a very consistent charging pattern, starting rather slowly at the bottom of the range and reaching peak closer to mid dole of the range before a fast taper. No current updates have changed or improved the results in six months and Tesla has no explanation. 2019.28.xxx Here are some sample charge readings I took...

Restricted Charge 5/22


3:31P 34% ~ 79kW

3:35P 42% ~ 80kW

3:37P 45% ~ 81kW

3:39P 49% ~ 82kW

3:41P 53%. ~ 81kW

3:43P 56% ~ 78kW

3:46P 62% ~ 69kW

3:49P 66% ~ 60kW

3:51P 70% ~ 54kW

3:53P 72% ~ 48kW

3:57P 78% ~ 38kW

4:01P 80% ~ 35kW


Restricted Charge 5/25


10:38P 18% ~ 75kW

10:40P 23% ~ 77kW

10:42P 27% ~ 78kW

10:44P 31% ~ 79kW

10:47P 36% ~ 80kW

10:50P 42% ~ 81kW

10:53P 48% ~ 79kW

10:55P 51% ~ 76kW

10:58P 58% ~ 70kW
 
Wow 81kW sucks.

What is Tesla saying?

They are saying it is normal, there are no faults or alerts and that the temperature of the supercharger handle, cable, pack, shared circuits, weather, performance of the unit...yada yada yada.

I was pretty vocal this time and they indicated they would do further follow-up and research. It really is frustrating that the engineers leave us and the local centers to discover and sort through these problems with little to no communication.

Every single charge is the same now irrespective of any of those factors. Here is a sample from today charging alone on a circuit with a warm battery. It was 88 degrees outside.

Arrived 8% -50 minutes on vehicle to 90%

75kW @ 10% 7:37

77kW @ 20% 7:41 (40 minutes reported)

78kW @ 25% 7:44

79kW @ 30% 7:47

80kW @ 35% 7:50

81kW @ 40% 7:52

74kW @ 45% 7:55 (30 minutes reported)

65kW @ 50% 7:57