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About that "yoke" steering wheel

eipi10

Member
Mar 17, 2021
243
544
Los Angeles
Folks, if you need two hands to drive, you’re doing something wrong.

As for why the yoke is better, it takes up less space and doesn’t block the dash panel. The top of the wheel has no utility, and I’m glad Tesla is getting rid of it. I’m glad they kept the bottom of the wheel because I often rest my thumbs there.

Nobody claimed that the yoke is “ergonomically better” than a steering wheel. It is ergonomically the same as a steering wheel.
 
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Wol747

Member
Aug 26, 2017
833
352
Tea Gardens
Literally the trillion $ right now is whether reasonably working FSD will actually be delivered next month or soon thereafter. Without that, this new interior makes a lot less sense.
I don't think FSD - in the sense that Tesla have sold it - will be available on any of the cars now in production. FSD in the sense that it's always the driver who is responsible, yes.
I've just been out and looked at the wheel angles - the wheel has a turn of about 380° from straight ahead at full lock - a right handful with a yoke, I'll bet! I tried several right-angle full lock turns and ended up with a knot in my arms using the wheel as a yoke!
 
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Wol747

Member
Aug 26, 2017
833
352
Tea Gardens
Folks, if you need two hands to drive, you’re doing something wrong.

As for why the yoke is better, it takes up less space and doesn’t block the dash panel. The top of the wheel has no utility, and I’m glad Tesla is getting rid of it. I’m glad they kept the bottom of the wheel because I often rest my thumbs there.

Nobody claimed that the yoke is “ergonomically better” than a steering wheel. It is ergonomically the same as a steering wheel.
Def: >>Ergonomics is about designing for people. Defined as the science of fitting a workplace to the user's needs<<
Just saying....
 

bayareaever

Member
Jun 17, 2013
360
200
East Bay Area
I’d argue with that FSD with driver monitoring is vastly better than anything on the market and also way better than what we have now. Also, the improvement will continue which is also unmatched in the industry.

once FSD is released, this interior will be be much more desirable than 3/Y which is how it should have been all along given the price differences.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,551
7,870
Seattle area, WA
I’ve seen the video and it does not negate my comment. The reports are that there are buttons on the underside of the yoke - like dual clutch paddle shifters.

I appreciate not everyone wants this, likes this, etc… but I’m also willing to try almost anything once before forming an opinion. That’s me, doesn’t have to be you, but at least be open-minded that others may like it, others may want it, and it may not work like you think.
It would make no sense whatsoever to have dedicated steering wheel buttons AND touchscreen version as well. Perhaps as @Hayseed_MS suggested in #185 the multi-function scroller would also allow you to switch gears, but that IMHO could actually be worse - a number of times I adjusted temperature instead of car volume when backing into my garage, because they scroll wheels flipped when the wheel was turned. Not to mention that those wheels are in fact multi-function, so additional room for confusion. Lastly, the scroll wheels are just an extension of MCU, so the gear shifting would be via MCU, which still means when MCU dies (and it will), the car cannot shift (except perhaps by guessing which way you want to go, perhaps Elon thinks by the time MCU3 dies the guessing will be perfect, just like he thought he'd have a coast-to-coast demo by end of 2017 and a million robo-taxis on the road by end of 2020).
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,551
7,870
Seattle area, WA
The yoke will markedly increase front display visibility, which will be way more important with the new FSD graphics. When I had a MS loaner, one of my dislikes (vs my M3) was the wheel blocked the display view.

Also , it will retract for FSD much easier than a wheel.

the yoke S/X won’t make much sense without the FSD package, which is no accident and will benefit the bottom line in a big way (assuming the software works as promised!)
LOL, I like you predicate assumption - assuming the software works as Elon says it will, even though he's been wrong about every single FSD deadline so far. So, perhaps this yoke will make sense in 12 years, who knows, assuming of course Tesla will retrofit all the cars with FSD for free with AP13 hardware, rather than removing the FSD and not allowing people to re-activated it whenever the car changes hands through a 3rd party dealer.
 
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Lasairfion

Member
Jul 24, 2018
496
540
UK
Personally I think that in order for the yoke to really work, it would need to have software that adjusts the amount of turning required depending on the speed of the vehicle. At high speeds it can work just fine with the usual amount of 'turnage' but at lower speeds the car is going to have to move the wheels far further on less input to make it feasible.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,551
7,870
Seattle area, WA
Personally I think that in order for the yoke to really work, it would need to have software that adjusts the amount of turning required depending on the speed of the vehicle. At high speeds it can work just fine with the usual amount of 'turnage' but at lower speeds the car is going to have to move the wheels far further on less input to make it feasible.
So if you are on a highway and hit the brakes hard, your speed goes down quick, and even though your steering wheel doesn't move, the car suddenly does a sharp turn into the oncoming traffic (at the same steering wheel angle that before it would have gently changed lanes)?
 
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bayareaever

Member
Jun 17, 2013
360
200
East Bay Area
LOL, I like you predicate assumption - assuming the software works as Elon says it will, even though he's been wrong about every single FSD deadline so far. So, perhaps this yoke will make sense in 12 years, who knows, assuming of course Tesla will retrofit all the cars with FSD for free with AP13 hardware, rather than removing the FSD and not allowing people to re-activated it whenever the car changes hands through a 3rd party dealer.
I agree about all the missed FSD deadlines. Let’s hope this time is different. At least there is a public beta now, which has never been the case before. I and many others paid for FSD years ago, so not releasing it to all those owners will be harder and harder to justify, especially with Elon’s recent ‘button’ tease. I can’t imagine the delay would continue past Q2 ‘21.

Regardless of the release date, this new interior is obviously built for FSD. The 3/Y interior is lacking for FSD , because the new graphics take up most of the screen space and all that’s left is entirely on the passenger side. Plus the double stalk push will seem cumbersome compared to a steering wheel button and prevents the wheel from fully retracting (once/if level 4 or 5 is achieved).
 

bayareaever

Member
Jun 17, 2013
360
200
East Bay Area
So if you are on a highway and hit the brakes hard, your speed goes down quick, and even though your steering wheel doesn't move, the car suddenly does a sharp turn into the oncoming traffic (at the same steering wheel angle that before it would have gently changed lanes)?
The software would have to be smart enough to prevent this. The current lane keeping feature kind of already does this so not such a stretch.
 

AlexParker

Member
Aug 5, 2020
136
103
Denver, CO
It would make no sense whatsoever to have dedicated steering wheel buttons AND touchscreen version as well.
I have music/speed control buttons on my steering wheel and my screen, so… In any case, its obvious you’re really fired up about this…and I’m just waiting to see what happens. It was fun having this chat, but I’ll put my time into something more productive.
 
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cascadilla

Member
Mar 28, 2021
97
146
Secaucus
In terms of the yoke in an airplane, you use the yoke to bank the plane. You also use it to control the pitch / attitude. The rudders are used in concert to the yoke to turn. Critically - you don't rotate a yoke much. In fact, you never use anything but one hand for a yoke. That hand never shifts. It remains on (assuming you're flying left seat) the left side of the yoke the ENTIRE TIME. Except, of course, in cruise flight. You trim the plane, and let go, allowing the plane to keep itself straight, and using the rudders for mild adjustments. You then use your time more productively to maintain a scan of the horizon.

I don't see how this translates to driving at all. THAT BEING SAID, I think it looks cool, and wouldn't mind trying it. It's possible I'd eventually have to pay them to swap it for a real wheel though.

The main maneuver I'm concerned about with the yoke? Not turning. Straightening out - where you usually let the wheel slide in your fingers back to its default position, but are ready to grab it / stop the rotation when necessary. You'll also typically do this to some extent somewhere mid-turn, especially if you over-steered into the start of the turn. Pay attention to how you drive - a lot more drivers do this than you'd think, especially when there's a concrete divider present.

If we all drove very precisely (as auto-pilot does), and turned the wheel the exact amount required to make a turn, this wouldn't be an issue. But, usually, we're approximating as we go into, and come out of, a turn.

But again - it looks so cool that I'm gonna try it for sure, whether or not I have concerns. I really hope it's not variable ratio steering though. That'd suck.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,551
7,870
Seattle area, WA
The software would have to be smart enough to prevent this. The current lane keeping feature kind of already does this so not such a stretch.
Ah, so when rapidly decelerating, your steering is completely controlled by software instead of the driver, because no matter how much the driver turns the wheel the car will adjust the ratio to make sure the car steers where the software thinks it should go? Given how well Tesla FSD handles complex unusual situations (such as an emergency rapid deceleration would be), no thanks - not a fan of putting my life in the hands of Beta software. Unless you are thinking FSD will be out of Beta before your car dies of old age? As a reference, I have a super simple, straight line only, summon feature from 2015 which is still in Beta today.
 
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whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,551
7,870
Seattle area, WA
I have music/speed control buttons on my steering wheel and my screen, so… In any case, its obvious you’re really fired up about this…and I’m just waiting to see what happens. It was fun having this chat, but I’ll put my time into something more productive.
I see you're saving your time already by not even reading my reply in entirety, but took the time to reply, so it seems you have some free time. So first, we are talking about buttons on the steering wheel, not stalks behind it which are missing from the yoke. Second, I mentioned about the multi-function buttons on the steering wheel, and how using such not dedicated buttons to switch gears would potentially create even more issues, as you might shift gears by accident when you think the button has a different function assigned to it (like your example of music control).
 

Skotty

2014 S P85 | 2020 3 P19"
Jun 27, 2013
2,438
1,753
Kansas City, MO
Elon needs to cut back on the eliminating options thing. It made sense to streamline production, but it's going overboard. There are almost no options on the cars now. That sucks. A great choice for providing an option is to make an optional normal steering wheel for people like me who absolutely hate the idea of a yoke wheel, regardless of how cool it looks.
 

Wol747

Member
Aug 26, 2017
833
352
Tea Gardens
>>The main maneuver I'm concerned about with the yoke? Not turning. Straightening out - where you usually let the wheel slide in your fingers back to its default position, but are ready to grab it / stop the rotation when necessary.<<

That's another "con" that hadn't come to mind - yes, you DO let the wheel slide back to neutral almost all the time you make any real turn. Perhaps it would work with a yoke, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
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