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Active safety features?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Rebel44, May 30, 2014.

  1. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Member

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    Hi all,

    I am interested in Tesla model S and I would like to know (if its public info), when does Tesla plan to add (optional) active safety features. Such features are already present on many new cars - from Volvo and Mercedes to VW up! ($11K car).
     
  2. Chipper

    Chipper Active Member

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    I am not at all sure what you are looking for in safety features? The Tesla Model S is already the safest automobile ever made.
     
  3. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Tesla has announced a partnership with Israeli firm Mobileye, which makes the sort of gadgets needed to implement features like steering assist, self-adjusting cruise control, etc. I would expect to see such features offered in the first refresh of the Model S, probably 2016 or so.
     
  4. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Which Volvo, Mercedes, or VW starts at $11,000?
     
  5. JST

    JST Active Member

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    The Up! is the VW he mentioned. Not available in the US.
     
  6. Chipper

    Chipper Active Member

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    A very well used one!:rolleyes::redface: Sorry...couldn't resist.
     
  7. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    The driver should be the only safety feature. Alerts and noises are not needed.
     
  8. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Member

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    #8 Rebel44, May 31, 2014
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
    I wasnt talking about dumb warning systems - I had in mind automatic braking (which is present even in that VW up!) is pretty usefull. Also, beyond improved safety, cars with such systems can get cheper insurance (so cost of ownership is decreased).

    Human will also always have longer reaction time compared to computer, so automatic systems are better way to avoid crashes when (for example) pedestrian unexpectedly start crossing the road or other driver make unexpected move.

    btw.: low speed automatic braking system on that VW cost only around 300€, so its not some super expensive option.
     
  9. GDH

    GDH Banned

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    I would imagine that in the next redesign they will add features like BLIS, Pedestrian Detection and ACC. My 2013 Volvo S60 T6 had all those features and I miss them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Volvo's automatic braking (pedestrian detection, City Safety and Adaptive Cruise Control ) is amazing....it's a little scary the fist time it happens but living in a metro area like I do it really comes in handy.
     
  10. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Do you have cruse control? ABS? Traction control? Power steering? Power brakes? Are you sure the driver should be the only safety feature? (And that doesn't even touch air bags, seat belts, crumple zones, reinforcement beams, safety glass, bumpers, mirrors, and all sorts of other safety features that aren't the driver. )
    People want these systems, they make the vehicle safer, they help make driving easier, and they are standard features on cars half the price of the MS

    The MS is an amazing car, but I'm getting sick of hearing people say it shouldn't have any feature that it didn't originally come with. That sort of thinking would still have people standing in front of their cars with a hand crank every morning!
     
  11. andydoty

    andydoty Member

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    I had to make an indirect comment about the whole debate over passing control(s) over to the car versus the driver. I, as well as some of us on here, are old enough to remember computers becoming mainstream. There were HUGE debates over whether computers would take over and people would lose their jobs. I also remember hearing comments how we could NEVER allow a computer to control critical systems as it was unreliable and could cause injury. So I have a question. When did people and computers switch safety roles?

    Just a little food for thought.
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I don't think they did [switch roles], but they are complementary. There are many things humans do better, there are also many things computers do better, and with the improvements in computers over the years this list has grown. If you think about airplanes, most is done by computers. Right now cars can't be at that level because there are too many odd situations. What humans don't do well is concentrate over a long period of time, see in the dark, and see when the sun is in their eyes. On the freeway during rush hour there are many rear end collisions because the drive looked away for a moment (and followed too closely--particularly in adverse conditions). Just having a system that would prevent rear end collisions on the freeway would significantly reduce the amount of accidents.
     
  13. Haggy

    Haggy Member

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    Active safety features

    The subject is active safety features, and that's where the Tesla is sorely lacking. With some of them, it's not just a matter of safety but of convenience, and standard equipment on peer vehicles. Tesla has no safety record when it comes to active safety features. The so called "safest automobile ever made" claim is based on the assumption that you get into an accident anyway and would have done the same in another vehicle. I'll put any vehicle that avoids an accident against a Tesla that gets into one and I'll find the other vehicle safer.

    The one thing that kept me from ordering a Model S sooner was the lack of any form of adaptive cruise control. What tipped the scale is that my other vehicle got totaled and I didn't have the option of waiting to see what Tesla does in the future. Ironically if my vehicle had more active safety features, the accident might not have happened. I wasn't driving and the driver lacked experience. If you take a vehicle that goes from 0-60 slightly faster than a Model S and put an inexperienced driver in it, it can be destroyed in seconds without active safety features.

    I like adaptive cruise control. It's not just the convenience of being able to set the speed and leave things alone. It's not just the ability to go on long trips without absentmindedly going way above the speed limit. And it's not just about having the car slow down on its own when traffic slows down. It's about safety.

    One time, I was driving and there were two cars in the lane next to me. I couldn't see that one was tailgating the other within a few feet at high speeds. All I could see was that I was being passed on the right. The lead vehicle obviously wanted to get away from the reckless one. So the driver wanted to change lanes in front of me as soon as there was a safe distance between us. But being a car length ahead of me gave the reckless driver enough room to cut me off within inches, ending up in the other car's blind spot in the process, and ending up with its front bumper about three feet ahead of the rear bumper of the other car when it finally started its lane change. So the result was that I was cut off at high speed within about a foot and the driver immediately slammed on his brakes full force.

    In those circumstances, Tesla would boast about its safety, its crumple zones, and how I was able to walk away from the accident. It might even have made the news. Instead, my seat belt immediately retracted to restrain me. The vehicle applied its brakes before it was humanly possible for me to get my foot over to the pedal. And when I did get my foot there, the brakes were pre-pressurized to have a hard feel since braking was already in progress, so the force of my foot counted immediately.

    You don't hear about these things in the news. Nobody reports that some guy was cut off on the freeway and he had to slam on his brakes to stop. Nobody lets you know when the beep from a lane departure warning let a person know to look up from his giant display because he is drifting toward the white line. Instead you hear about how that person who drifted into the next lane in a Tesla got off unscathed because of the brilliant safety features. That's backwards.

    After the accident, my daughter wanted me to find her the safest car. It won't be a Tesla. It might be a Subaru that's barely over $20k. It monitors the road with two color cameras. It will stop if the vehicle in front stops, even if its driver doesn't. It will track the red tail lights of the vehicles in front, just as a camera tracks faces to keep things in focus. And in addition to judging distance as such systems did in the past, it will have more data points to predict changes in highway speeds. It will know what's next to you and whether you are drifting. And if you look away for a second to glance at your map, and it happens to be the second when a reckless driver cuts you off, it will prevent an accident.

    The irony is that you are already paying for the safety package. You aren't paying Tesla though. You are paying your insurance company and your body shop. These days, the slightest dent can cost $1000 to fix. Over the life of a Tesla, chances are the extra insurance premiums will be far more than what it would have cost for a tech package with a couple of extra cameras and something that senses distance behind vehicles for the next five or so car lengths. The rest of the system is already there. Tesla has the computer so there wouldn't be any other hardware costs. It would just be a matter of programming it so it could compete with a $20K Subaru in terms of safety. I don't think that's asking too much.

    When people ask if I would have missed the feature had it not been on my previous vehicle, the irony is that the answer might have been no. I couldn't miss it if I didn't survive an accident. My only wish is that the person who totaled my other car had been driving my wife's Acura instead. That one might have stopped, or at least slowed itself down enough that the car would have been repairable.
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Tesla should get some accident-avoidance credit for it's regenerative braking system. As soon as you start lifting your foot off the gas pedal, the motor starts regenerative braking. This is a pretty substantial amount of braking, likely similar to the amount that an adaptive cruise control system would apply (my former Infiniti would apply "50%" braking power according to the manual). So the Tesla will already be decelerating, with the brake lights on, before you can even move your foot over the brake.

    Also I will point out that these adaptive cruise systems don't work in heavy rain, nor in snowy conditions especially if the snow sticks to the sensor (a very common problem). These are precisely the kinds of conditions where you are more likely to get into an accident, yet you won't be able to rely on it to protect you.

    I'd still prefer the car that better absorbs energy and protects the occupant.
     
  15. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    What people don't seem to grasp is that this isn't an either-or situation, Tesla can, and should have BOTH. if a $20,000 or less car can do it, it's positively embarrassing that the $100,000 one doesn't.
     
  16. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    + 1
     
  17. huntjo

    huntjo Member

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    Cool story, brah!

    - - - Updated - - -

    And welcome to the forum
     
  18. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    That $20,000 car probably has a CD player too (something the Model S lacks). Should Tesla add one? Surely a $100,000 car can afford a $10 CD player?

    I like that Tesla does its own thing and to heck with what everyone else does. I'm with Doug_G on this; this new safety suite that's all the rage is well and good, but I'd never trust it. There are too many situations where it can't/doesn't work. So what good is it? Certainly not something I'll be begging Tesla to add.
     
  19. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    The arguments against automation and for humans when it comes to safety have been debunked for decades. Aviation has proven, with its safety record and statistics, that automation is significantly safer than human monitored safety.
     
  20. Rebel44

    Rebel44 Member

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    I still dont see any reason why it shouldnt be offered as an OPTION.
     

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