Actual cost of supercharging?

[moa999]

Actually Tesla superchargers are mostly now 52-53c/kWh...

But Evie 350kW units are 60c/kWh so maybe Tesla is too cheap.

Reality is with the current penetration of electric vehicles I don't think anyone is making money at electric chargers - particularly the more remote ones. Tesla specifically says that it doesn't aim to make money supercharging.

The main issue is apart from having to payoff the charging units ($50-100k each), the site costs and any power upgrade costs..
You also have to have to pay monthly demand charges - based on peak usage.

So if you have a remote 350kW charger that gets a single Porsche Taycan using it, and charges at 250kW, you could be up for $000s in demand chargers, even though total monthly consumption may only be 100kWh.

Same at a Tesla supercharger that has limited usage, and then gets hit by a group of Tesla chargers on a drive day.

As penetration of EVs grows and they get more usage, then the install and demand charges can be amortised over more vehicles, so hopefully the rate can fall.

 

[Nobody Famous]

Was just reading this thread on the NZ forum about recent price increases.

Supercharging too expensive

In 2019, supercharging at Taupo etc used to cost around 30c/kWh. Now I see at some sites it is 81c/kWh, up from 52c/kWh just a few months ago. I acknowledge fast charging is for road trips, but these rates are not at all competitive with petrol given we have to ‘fill up’ 1.5-2x more often on a...

teslamotorsclub.com

Does Tesla publish their "Bowser" pricing anywhere? Most seem to say you find out for sure after you pay.

 

[moa999]

Does Tesla publish their "Bowser" pricing anywhere? Most seem to say you find out for sure after you pay.

The in-car map has the details when you click on a site. (Eg. This US site which has variable pricing with the holiday off-peak special).
All AU sites are currently $0.51/kWh

 

[ZeeDoktor]

That's.... fairly pricey for the US!

I for the first time encountered an almost full supercharger at Canberra on Saturday. All stalls taken by white Model 3s except one, which I plugged into. I was thinking if I had to pay for this, I'd be mildly irritated - I got lifetime free supercharging with my S Performance when I bought it though.

Then I started thinking about how owners of a Tesla that cost 3 times as much as the one in the stall next to them should also be getting 3x the charge, rather than just splitting it between the two. Other ideas I had: Tesla could introduce an auctioning system where you can bid how much you're willing to pay and if you win you're charging at say 80% of full capacity, and the loser gets 20%.

 

[paulp]

That's.... fairly pricey for the US!

I for the first time encountered an almost full supercharger at Canberra on Saturday. All stalls taken by white Model 3s except one, which I plugged into. I was thinking if I had to pay for this, I'd be mildly irritated - I got lifetime free supercharging with my S Performance when I bought it though.

Then I started thinking about how owners of a Tesla that cost 3 times as much as the one in the stall next to them should also be getting 3x the charge, rather than just splitting it between the two. Other ideas I had: Tesla could introduce an auctioning system where you can bid how much you're willing to pay and if you win you're charging at say 80% of full capacity, and the loser gets 20%.

Sounds more like a class system to me. Bentley’s que at the servo with the carolla’s.

 

[Nobody Famous]

Other ideas I had: Tesla could introduce an auctioning system where you can bid how much you're willing to pay and if you win you're charging at say 80% of full capacity, and the loser gets 20%.

An UBER style surge price model could work. The busier it gets the more it costs.

I'd charge on Tightarse Tuesdays.

 

[cafz]

Do you really think that the amount effectively paid up-front by "unlimited lifetime Supercharging" owners is enough to sustain the network indefinitely, let alone roll out all those new sites?

The 15,000-odd Model 3 owners paying 0.51c/kWh are what's keeping that network afloat, otherwise you'd be stuck waiting with the Leaf drivers in the queue for the free NRMA chargers!

 

[atj777]

I'd charge on Tightarse Tuesdays.

Which was basically when I filled up my ICE cars. There was a weekly cycle of petrol prices and if you knew the cycle you could save pay up to 20c/L less than what the price would be the next day.

 

[Onshore]

Bentley’s que at the servo with the carolla’s.

Yeah but the Bentley owner sends "Jeeves" to do the deed.

 

[Onshore]

Reality is with the current penetration of electric vehicles I don't think anyone is making money at electric chargers - particularly the more remote ones. Tesla specifically says that it doesn't aim to make money supercharging.

I think you're right, for now at least.

If a charger stall provides say 10 charges per day of 50kWh each, that's 500kWh. If the operator has a margin of 20c per unit, then the stall is producing a gross profit of $100 per day, before other costs like site rent, maintenance and so on. Not exactly big bucks.

Some of the quieter sites like Bathurst for example would do a lot less volume than that.

 

[cafz]

Some of the quieter sites like Bathurst for example would do a lot less volume than that.

I did a little sampling-based analysis of Superchargers over the south-east in the first half of last year. My estimate for Bathurst at that time was usage of about 4.5 sessions/day, with a 95% confidence interval of +/- 1.7 sessions/day (estimating 9am-5pm hours only, I didn't try to estimate evening or night usage).

There's a lot more model 3s around this year than last year, of course.

 

[Onshore]

I did a little sampling-based analysis of Superchargers over the south-east in the first half of last year. My estimate for Bathurst at that time was usage of about 4.5 sessions/day, with a 95% confidence interval of +/- 1.7 sessions/day (estimating 9am-5pm hours only, I didn't try to estimate evening or night usage).

Is that figure per stall or for the whole site?

 

[moa999]

Interesting. Is that by observation or regularly checking the app.

With alternate information in the 2wks the NRMA site adjacent was down, only 3 negative posts on Plugshare.
(I assume the post rate of a bad experience is much higher)

 

[cafz]

Is that figure per stall or for the whole site?

Site.

 

[cafz]

Interesting. Is that by observation or regularly checking the app.

With alternate information in the 2wks the NRMA site adjacent was down, only 3 negative posts on Plugshare.
(I assume the post rate of a bad experience is much higher)

Through the app.

Once there's one or two reports that a site is down, I would expect people (who use Plugshare, anyway) to avoid it until it's been reported fixed.

 

[Onshore]

Interesting. Is that by observation or regularly checking the app.

With alternate information in the 2wks the NRMA site adjacent was down, only 3 negative posts on Plugshare.
(I assume the post rate of a bad experience is much higher)

Unfortunately when the NRMA charger goes down, the non Tesla ppl inadvertently post negative reviews against the Tesla site. The pins are very close together in PlugShare. Basically a case of fat fingers.

That’s why the tesla charge is scoring 7.4 despite being super reliable.

 

[cafz]

I wonder why the non-Tesla people have Superchargers enabled in their Plugshare site filter?

 

[Onshore]

I wonder why the non-Tesla people have Superchargers enabled in their Plugshare site filter?

I suspect a lot of people just leave it set to show all.

The other fun and games at the Bathurst chargers is the lady in the Outlander PHEV who stalks the NRMA charger and kicks up a stink when a Tesla uses it. You can see some of her antics on Plugshare too!

Side note:

I don't think PHEVS have any place in tying up DC fast charging infrastructure. Go to the bloody petrol station. I think the Outlander is a bit of an oddity in that it is a PHEV with a DC charge port - albeit a very slow one limited to less than 25kw.

 

[Nobody Famous]

the lady in the Outlander PHEV

"Not Happy" Jenn

 

[Maximillan]

There's an interesting sense of entitlement that appears on a free resource. Karen in the Outlander is going to keep getting worked up and angry for as long as NRMA keeps the charging free.