eye.surgeon
Active Member
I'll let you in on a secret. If you hold the wheel that doesn't happen.
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After 6 months of loving my car, version 8 makes me want to sell it
- Thread starter dhjdhj
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- Model S User Interface
Yikes! This hasn't done much to reduce my fears of 8.0... Guess I'll sit tight on 7.1! Does anyone think the reduced ability to auto steer without hand-holding will reduce the market appeal for Tesla? The German cars are still requiring a touch every 15-30 sec, but may be better at sensing a hand resting on the wheel.
I'll let you into another secret too....if I have to hold the steering wheel all the time, then there's not much value-add to the feature. Imagine traditional cruise-control where you have to keep your feet on the pedals all the time.
Change your technique. It is a computer, you will have to make compromises to use it, and in exchange you get productivity improvements. You sound like a smart guy, figure it out.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Disagree. Your analogy is incredibly far off based on my 12K worth of roadtrip experience using auto-steer/pilot. It is much more relaxing and lets you look around (peripheral vision still watching road). Allows for some long miles of travel, less stress, and just a plain more relaxing way to drive. It is huge to me and simple with my hand(s) on the wheel. Even if looking left / right at scenario or side roads I can IMMEDIATELY **feel** the wheel do something odd and react. I don't have to visually see it do something and have that delay/interpretation happen.
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
If the title of your thread is true, why isn't your vehicle up for sale?
What is it about "makes me want to sell it" that you didn't understand. It's leased --- non trivial to actually sell it!
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I understand it fully. You can say "it's leased" as an excuse but we both know the title to this thread is over dramatic, over the top, cow manure.
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you strongly on this (except of course for the first part of the last sentence 
)
For a start, the goal of a good computer system is that the computer should work the way a human wants, it should not be the case that the human has to compromise. Now clearly, that's non-trivial although we're getting better at it. Having said that, version 7 is an existence proof that it can be done better and I find version 8 to be a step backwards --- I see no value in having to compromise over something that actually used to work better.
)For a start, the goal of a good computer system is that the computer should work the way a human wants, it should not be the case that the human has to compromise. Now clearly, that's non-trivial although we're getting better at it. Having said that, version 7 is an existence proof that it can be done better and I find version 8 to be a step backwards --- I see no value in having to compromise over something that actually used to work better.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Nice ad hominem attack -- which is about the lowest form of argument. And that's aside from the fact that I've criticized Tesla much more than the one post you did. I just don't go all overboard and talk about selling my vehicle.
I can't understand why you feel how you do. Sorry.
Sell the car and good luck to you.
Sell the car and good luck to you.
It was not intended as an ad hominem attack, it was a reaction to the sarcastic comment "You know; one that doesn't require peripheral vision or hearing" .
It seems very difficult to actually discuss the problem on this forum. I said it makes me "want" to sell my vehicle, which describes how I felt when it shut off auto-steer on me. The actual choice language I used at that moment didn't seem like the appropriate subject line
I didn't say I was immediately going to sell it.
I've made my arguments for why I think the new design is not as good as the older one. I'm interested in understanding why people disagree and/or how many feel the same way. Anything else is just a distraction.
It seems very difficult to actually discuss the problem on this forum. I said it makes me "want" to sell my vehicle, which describes how I felt when it shut off auto-steer on me. The actual choice language I used at that moment didn't seem like the appropriate subject line
I didn't say I was immediately going to sell it.
I've made my arguments for why I think the new design is not as good as the older one. I'm interested in understanding why people disagree and/or how many feel the same way. Anything else is just a distraction.
FYI I'm going to unwatch this thread now --- I have no sense that there is anything useful to be gained. If anyone is a moderator and wants to delete the thread, feel free.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I have no scientific evidence to go on (but I would love to see some ...) but I think you are incorrect in assuming you can get your hands onto the wheel in 250ms. Its different to the doctor banging your knee with a hammer and your leg jerking
, your brain has to register the situation, react (a racing driver, expecting trouble on a track, would be quick; an alert driver less so - particularly if "nothing untoward happened for the last 100 / 1000 miles / ever ... - and a driver just changing music tracks on the audio system, with eyes off the road momentarily, obviously longer), and only then instruct your hands to move onto the wheel and only then perform the appropriate corrective action. That is going to be much longer than a quarter-second.I reckon you would be 500ms at best, and nearer to 1 second in many scenarios. That's 66 feet, at 60 MPH. I have never had AP react unexpectedly (as distinct from me intervening when there was a potential obstacle, or I was concerned about behaviour / road position of some other vehicle), but I have read several messages on this forum where AP took a sudden dive sideways; that movement would take the car a long way in 66 feet, or even 33 feet or, at your 250ms at 60 MPH, 16.5 feet - I guess even in America with your lovely wide roads that 16.5 feet approximates to a whole lane taken at 45 degrees.
I get that early adopters were lead to believe that AP would be "on-ramp to off-ramp", but it hasn't turned out that way. I reckon either you have a legitimate gripe with Elon / Tesla on that point, or you need to decide that you are happy to change to hands-on-wheel.
Chopr147
Active Member
I and many here agree that if we must always hold the wheel it kinda defeats the purpose of AP.
Many here also agree with your opinion on the 8.0 "improvements" and how the nags are more common. As far as the AP goes it feels like the car is learning some of the same locations all over again. I had noticed the AP getting better with each time I used it and have taken a step back in that process after updating. Having said this though I am not dissatisfied with 8.0 , just not real satisfied
I don't think Tesla had much of a choice, they had to add nags if only to get the NHTSA and media nag off of them.
Many here also agree with your opinion on the 8.0 "improvements" and how the nags are more common. As far as the AP goes it feels like the car is learning some of the same locations all over again. I had noticed the AP getting better with each time I used it and have taken a step back in that process after updating. Having said this though I am not dissatisfied with 8.0 , just not real satisfied
I don't think Tesla had much of a choice, they had to add nags if only to get the NHTSA and media nag off of them.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Being able to drive, on roads where AP can read the markings well, with hands-off the wheel would be a great step towards fully autonomous. But to my way of thinking it would be critical that the car could give advanced warning if it wanted you to take over (i.e. enough time to get your hands back onto the wheel, I guess that might only need to be 1/2 - 1 second, but perhaps it could be less than that). I think there would have to be a reliable minimum warning time though, so you could be sure you would have time to react - unlike at present where you get the Ding-Dong when AP disengages and its already instantly heading for the countryside!
Perhaps that will become feasible with current sensors, and improved software as well as white-listed GPS-located road features etc., for the current fleet?
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