All discussion of Rivian Automotive

[RobStark]

Got this from rivianforums dot com. Posted by DuoRivians

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY (original source link below) from fireside chat with Claire McDonough, CFO of Deutsche Bank:

Enduro ramp slightly ahead of schedule

Consumer demand trend:

• Overall, continue to have robust demand into 2024
• Stable demand environment, ie demand isn’t falling as some might have concerns of

Have ability to flexibly build between R1S and R1T

Q2 : R1S is the majority of production volume

70% of preorders have been for R1S

2024 : couple weeks of downtime to introduce new tech into R1.

• Network based architecture,
• Simplify wire harness
• Better manufacturing
• Intro of LFP
• Additional changes to nickel battery pack
• Material cost savings
• 85K production capacity for R1

Amazon relationship

• Reduced material costs in EDVs by 25% via enduro + LFP in Q1
• Focused on Amazon, but see good demand in the long tail
• Every EDV currently connected to a fleet OS subscription

Backend of 2024

• 85K for R1 capacity
• ~30K for EDV capacity
• (Gave impression Normal has capacity for 65K EDVs once producing beyond Amazon)

R2:

• Unveil in early 2024
• $40-60K price range
• Preserve adventurous setting along more affordable price point

NACS:

• Rivian is dedicated to build-out of RAN
• Open to partnerships with others. Didn't really say yes or no to NACS

Self Driving:

• Goal is to build to L3 capacity

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-news-r2-production-preorders-2024-amazon-nacs-self-driving-from-global-auto-industry-conference-2023.16113/

 

[mspohr]

If there wasn't any benefit for GM and Ford drivers in GM and Ford making a deal with Tesla they they wouldn't have done a deal. NACS is an open standard that anyone can use for free.

My understanding is that CCS cars can only charge at limited number of Magic Doc locations.

When GM/Ford release a CCS to NACS adapter next year the handshake to use at non-Magic Doc Supercharger will not work for non-GM non-Ford cars.

I believe the deal is for access to the API and billing to integrate it with their own apps.
The NACS is an open standard plug and protocol. Anyone should be able to implement it.

 

[RobStark]

I believe the deal is for access to the API and billing to integrate it with their own apps.
The NACS is an open standard plug and protocol. Anyone should be able to implement it.

Correct, anybody can install NACS without approval from Tesla or paying a fee to Tesla. Everyone with NACS can plug into a non-magic doc Supercharger. You can physically do it. BEVs from brands outside the "NACS Coalition" (Tesla,Ford, and GM) can't actually charge at non-magic doc Superchargers.

 

[RobStark]

BTW Ford has plug'n charge and a payments app. FordPass.

GM has neither. Both signed up for "NACS Coalition."

 

[MP3Mike]

GM has neither. Both signed up for "NACS Coalition."

GM agregates charging networks in their app like the FordPass app:

To provide our customers more convenience when it comes to EV charging, GM is working with major EV charging providers including Blink® Charging, ChargePoint®, EV ConnectSM, EVgo, FLO®, GreenlotsTM and SemaConnectTM. Through MyChevrolet and other brand apps 1, customers will be able to easily see real-time information from approximately 80,000 places to charge throughout the U.S. and Canada, find charging stations along a route and initiate and pay for charging.

Their charging strategy is branded: Ultium Charge 360, but yeah they haven't implements Plug&Charge yet.

 

[mspohr]

Correct, anybody can install NACS without approval from Tesla or paying a fee to Tesla. Everyone with NACS can plug into a non-magic doc Supercharger. You can physically do it. BEVs from brands outside the "NACS Coalition" (Tesla,Ford, and GM) can't actually charge at non-magic doc Superchargers.

Since anyone can charge at a magic dock now using the Tesla app, what makes you think that a car with NACS socket won't be able to charge? (Not that any exist now.)

 

[Doggydogworld]

GM announced Plug and Charge a year ago with EVGo and said they'd expand it to other networks. I don't know if it actually works, though, or if they are compliant with the standard.

Site Maintenance

 

[MP3Mike]

GM announced Plug and Charge a year ago with EVGo and said they'd expand it to other networks. I don't know if it actually works, though, or if they are compliant with the standard.

EVgo doesn't yet support Plug&Charge, they have their own proprietary AutoCharge which isn't compatible with a lot of vehicles.

 

[adiggs]

Every time I bring up that lawsuit in other EV forums people bring up Apple suing Samsung for IP theft. They kept doing business on other matters and waging legal wars on others.

Tesla is claiming Rivian stole mundane things. Like the process of acquiring sites, permits, and specialist employees. And poaching large quantities of employees from the Supercharger department. Not core electrical/software engineering IP. Anyways "All patents are belong to you."

And denying Rivian application to join "NACS Coalition" could get the DoJ sniffing around for exercise of monopolistic power to restrain competition.

Additional Resources | Tesla

Tesla expects our suppliers to conduct their worldwide operations in responsible manner in adherence of this policy and the principles enumerated herein.

www.tesla.com

Reading the "fine print" on the patent pledge is helpful. I don't know what is going on between Tesla and Rivian on the legal front, but this particular bit might be germane:

A party is "acting in good faith" for so long as such party and its related or affiliated companies have not:

• asserted, helped others assert or had a financial stake in any assertion of (i) any patent or other intellectual property right against Tesla or (ii) any patent right against a third party for its use of technologies relating to electric vehicles or related equipment;
• challenged, helped others challenge, or had a financial stake in any challenge to any Tesla patent; or
• marketed or sold any knock-off product (e.g., a product created by imitating or copying the design or appearance of a Tesla product or which suggests an association with or endorsement by Tesla) or provided any material assistance to another party doing so.

The patent pledge has some important teeth in it. Manufacturers can use Tesla's patents to develop their own products. But in doing so they also limit what they can do themselves in terms of getting and enforcing patents.

 

[RobStark]

Since anyone can charge at a magic dock now using the Tesla app, what makes you think that a car with NACS socket won't be able to charge? (Not that any exist now.)

The fact that Tesla negotiated with the Biden Administration to limit magic-docs to a small number of chargers at eventually half the Supercharger stations in exchange for IRA Charging Infrastructure subsidies.

The fact that GM and Ford have formal agreements with Tesla. Musk and Farley had a bro-fest on twitter spaces. Barra had a public uncomfortable capitulation on Twitter spaces. The fact that Musk is publicly lobbying Toyota to "join the NACS Coalition."

If this is all about backdoor billing jezus talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you are going to open every charger in the network to every non-Tesla BEV anyways why the big jigamaroh? If that is what Tesla was planning on doing why not just say it. It is the kind of big magnanimous statement Musk loves making on Twitter. "Every Supercharger for Everyone."

 

[RobStark]

GM announced Plug and Charge a year ago with EVGo and said they'd expand it to other networks. I don't know if it actually works, though, or if they are compliant with the standard.

Site Maintenance

AFAIK GM doesn't have plug'n charge that works with Electrify America. I don't know why it would work with EVgo and not EA.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Since anyone can charge at a magic dock now using the Tesla app, what makes you think that a car with NACS socket won't be able to charge? (Not that any exist now.)

While it hasn't been explicitly stated AFAIK, my 100% belief is that other manufacturers cannot and will not be able to charge at non Magic Dock Tesla Superchargers without an agreement with Tesla. I agree with Rob here. If you believe otherwise, can you offer any reason why?

BTW, I have yet to see the NACS communication/authentication specs. Has anyone else seen it?

 

[mspohr]

While it hasn't been explicitly stated AFAIK, my 100% belief is that other manufacturers cannot and will not be able to charge at non Magic Dock Tesla Superchargers without an agreement with Tesla. I agree with Rob here. If you believe otherwise, can you offer any reason why?

BTW, I have yet to see the NACS communication/authentication specs. Has anyone else seen it?

Elon Musk touts 'morally right' EV charging deals

Tesla CEO Elon Musk says his company was "just trying to do the right thing" by opening up its charging stations to Ford and GM electric vehicle owners.

www.foxbusiness.com

I think opening up the chargers is morally right, and it was something that will help the industry become more electric," Musk told an audience Tuesday at the Edison Electric Institute's EEI 2023 conference. "It's something that will help power sustainability."

Musk told EEI Tesla will not favor one of its competitors over another in granting access to the Supercharger network

 

[RobStark]

Elon Musk touts 'morally right' EV charging deals

Tesla CEO Elon Musk says his company was "just trying to do the right thing" by opening up its charging stations to Ford and GM electric vehicle owners.

www.foxbusiness.com

I think opening up the chargers is morally right, and it was something that will help the industry become more electric," Musk told an audience Tuesday at the Edison Electric Institute's EEI 2023 conference. "It's something that will help power sustainability."

Musk told EEI Tesla will not favor one of its competitors over another in granting access to the Supercharger network

Elon has not granted access to all his competitors.

He will offer all his competitors the same deal.

So far Ford and GM have accepted this offer. And been granted access.

So far no other OEM has accepted this deal.

That seems like a plain English interpretation of what he said.

 

[mspohr]

Elon has not granted access to all his competitors.

He will offer all his competitors the same deal.

So far Ford and GM have accepted this offer. And been granted access.

So far no other OEM has accepted this deal.

That seems like a plain English interpretation of what he said.

I think you've add quite a bit to Elon's plain English.

 

[Knightshade]

Exclusive: Rivian to acquire ABRP (A Better Route Planner)

The deal could close in a week – or it might have been completed as this goes to print. Sources...

electrek.co

 

[JRP3]

Rivian to use Tesla standard

Rivian inks Tesla fast-charging agreement, joining Ford and GM

Shares of Rivian Automotive rose more than 2% Tuesday after the electric-vehicle maker said its EV owners will be able to use Tesla's fast-charging network.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[KJD]

Rivian to use Tesla standard

Rivian inks Tesla fast-charging agreement, joining Ford and GM

Shares of Rivian Automotive rose more than 2% Tuesday after the electric-vehicle maker said its EV owners will be able to use Tesla's fast-charging network.

www.marketwatch.com

Only smart move RJ has done in the past year. Will it be enough to turn things around, I kind of doubt it.

 

[Mengy]

Rivian to use Tesla standard

Rivian inks Tesla fast-charging agreement, joining Ford and GM

Shares of Rivian Automotive rose more than 2% Tuesday after the electric-vehicle maker said its EV owners will be able to use Tesla's fast-charging network.

www.marketwatch.com

They had too, any EV sold in the US which isn't on the NACS standard will be at a massive disadvantage. Expect many other EV makers to follow very shortly.

 

[mspohr]

They had too, any EV sold in the US which isn't on the NACS standard will be at a massive disadvantage. Expect many other EV makers to follow very shortly.

As a Tesla owner and Rivian reservation holder I am very happy about this news. This eliminates one of my main concerns about the Rivian purchase.