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Am I pushing my luck with this setup? NEMA 14-50 on a 100amp panel?

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As for the conduit, it the conduit necessary for 6 awg on a NEMA 14-50 or NEMA 14-30?
People's answers are correct, but I think sometimes we're so used to using some of the same technical terminology that we forget to explain what they mean sometimes. The question of using conduit or not doesn't depend on the wire thickness; it's more about how/where you are running the wire, and that also relates to the wire types.

What is called NM-B or "Romex" is that multi-wire bundle with the black rubber sheath you have probably seen. That is approved for just running inside of your walls directly, without the need for conduit.

The ones that are referred to as THWN or THHN are individual wires. So you might select to run 2 or 3 or however many separate conductors you need for the outlet or device you're putting on. Those can't just be run loose in your wall where the insulation is, so they would run on the outside surface of a wall, and since they are not attached together, they would all need to be placed in some kind of conduit.

So then when you have picked how you are going to run it, whether cable inside the wall, or separate wires in conduit outside the wall, that kind of picks your wire type. Then you can look up in that ampacity table what thickness of wire you would need for the specific size of circuit you are going to do.

I hope that explains the basics a little better.
 
Am I pushing my luck with the load or should I

First of all what are your driving habits daily? Thats the first determiner of how much you MAY need to charge daily. 110V solves most in town driving, less efficient and slow, but it does get done.

The next is how quickly do you really need to replace that usage? Perhaps slow ramp down and up to big charging event on weekends?

Then 'Im not sure on Model 3 because I don't own one, but in my Model S you can set the charge in the middle of the night like 11.30 pm to 5 am during the times you are not using anything really.

30 amps Nema10-30 I think you find will take care of your needs or HPWC set to 30 amps max. The dryer buddy I am not familiar with, but that sounds like a great idea if your using UMC only and the dryer outlet is close at hand.

Don't forget to take your UMC with you though especially on out of town trips. You may need it. Certainly your adapter for EV charging everywhere.
 
The pic you show is due to thinner wire on bigger breaker. I never said to 14 AWG wire and breaker will trip. Breaker needs to be weakest link in the chain
In theory the breaker would trip and everything would be ok. However, “worst case” (your words) is that the breaker doesn’t trip (which is, while not super common, at least something that can and does happen) and your house burns down, killing your entire family and foster children and dogs the day after you win the lottery. Circuit breakers should be the last line of defense in a well-planned out system.
 
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Mr Trumpet, I do not have a disposal or compactor. Microwave is 1100 watts. You nailed the Dryer and A/C at 3 tonne, not sure about the watts. Not sure if the other numbers are correct. Almost never use the over anyway, except for the range to heat up stuff in pots like soup or boil water. We use a Breville countertop mini-over. It heats up much faster, since it is in a smaller space. It's 1800 watts.
Removing the disposal, compactor, and 200W for the microwave from the calculation frees up 3.4 A. I assume your 3 ton A/C is less than 10 years old, so will conclude your A/C is more efficient, leaving you exactly 100A. Snap a photo of the nameplate/label on the A/C unit. The mini oven is a "small appliance" load covered under Section (1). A minimum of two small appliance circuits are required for ALL kitchens... basically those are the sockets that are on the countertops. Is the microwave plugged in (countertop) or built in (in cabinets)? This is a place where you can gain 5A (1100VA divided by 240V). Puts you at 95A.

The 110V option as suggested by @Oldschool496 is an option. The return on investment of installing home charging could be significant. Depends on the rate plan elected with utility. I am on a time-of-use rate plan that works great with solar and dare not charge the car outside my 8hr window on weekdays. The 110V doesn't work if you drive more than 30 miles a day with a 8hr charging window. The battery on the Model 3 is large, so I could have just topped off on the 20hr window on weekends (former LEAF driver).

The 220V 15A or 20A options are possible. You would have to get the $35 Tesla adapter for NEMA 6-15 or NEMA 6-20 that will serve well. 220V on 15A will charge twice as fast as a 110V.
 
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I studied the Time-Current curve of my breaker. The open top of the curve seems to imply that the breaker may never trip for a small over-spec condition. So I have impression that these electrical devices, wires, and codes are all designed with some margins.
 

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Ivan801, would that be with a NEMA 6-20?

You can do a 6-20 or 6-15 outlet with the Gen 2 Mobile Connector + 6-20 or 6-15 adapter, or you can install a Wall Connector and have the current limited to 20 A or 15 A at 240 V. The Mobile Connector option seems to give you a good level of flexibility, since you can take it with you. I have a 6-20 outlet, use the Mobile Connector to charge, and have been happy with the setup.

You should also install either a 20 A or 15 A breaker. Depending on the length of the circuit run, your electrician will probably have to install 10 AWG or possibly 8 AWG wire. I think a Wall Connector can accept either. If there's a concern about circuit overload with everything in the house running, you may want to set the car to charge at a lower level, e.g. 10 A max. Consider also installing a GFCI 240 V circuit breaker if there's a chance the new outlet will come into contact with water (e.g. if it's going to be outside). While you're doing these upgrades, consider also installing a whole-house surge protector.

Gen 2 Mobile Connector Adapters:
Gen 2 NEMA Adapters

Wall Connector:
Silver Wall Connector

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...nstallation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf?201612081439

Whole house surge protector:
Leviton 120-Volt/240-Volt Residential Whole House Surge Protector-R02-51110-SRG - The Home Depot
 
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The pic you show is due to thinner wire on bigger breaker. I never said to 14 AWG wire and breaker will trip. Breaker needs to be weakest link in the chain
My point is that you don't know what's behind the walls to begin with, so why try to fudge it? The picture shows what happened the second night I tried to charge my car. Everything was dead, but no breakers had been tripped. After some poking around and cutting some holes in my basement ceiling, the electricians found that someone had connected, as you said, a 50-amp subpanel with a 10-amp wire. The work was done years ago, WITH A PERMIT.
 
You can do a 6-20 or 6-15 outlet with the Gen 2 Mobile Connector + 6-20 or 6-15 adapter, or you can install a Wall Connector and have the current limited to 20 A or 15 A at 240 V. The Mobile Connector option seems to give you a good level of flexibility, since you can take it with you. I have a 6-20 outlet, use the Mobile Connector to charge, and have been happy with the setup.

You should also install either a 20 A or 15 A breaker. Depending on the length of the circuit run, your electrician will probably have to install 10 AWG or possibly 8 AWG wire. I think a Wall Connector can accept either. If there's a concern about circuit overload with everything in the house running, you may want to set the car to charge at a lower level, e.g. 10 A max. Consider also installing a GFCI 240 V circuit breaker if there's a chance the new outlet will come into contact with water (e.g. if it's going to be outside). While you're doing these upgrades, consider also installing a whole-house surge protector.

Gen 2 Mobile Connector Adapters:
Gen 2 NEMA Adapters

Wall Connector:
Silver Wall Connector

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...nstallation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf?201612081439

Whole house surge protector:
Leviton 120-Volt/240-Volt Residential Whole House Surge Protector-R02-51110-SRG - The Home Depot

I am taking the easy way out, although the expensive way. I picked a Telsa suggested electrician and am upgrading to 200amp electric panel and the Wall Charger, but probably dialing it down to 30amps. 48amps would charge my car in just a few hours, way less than the length of time it would be plugged in overnight.
Am I dumb to go through all that trouble end expense to use a lower charge than I can get?
 
[QUOTE="garth_angst, post: 3558449, member: 99776"
Am I dumb to go through all that trouble end expense to use a lower charge than I can get?[/QUOTE]


No hasty decisions, its just a car, and you just need a little power to keep it going or a lot of power?
Dumb, well I wouldn't go that far, Just get the price and then decide. Really need to measure your driving habits to determine your charge need as I said above.
 
[QUOTE="garth_angst, post: 3558449, member: 99776"
Am I dumb to go through all that trouble end expense to use a lower charge than I can get?


No hasty decisions, its just a car, and you just need a little power to keep it going or a lot of power?
Dumb, well I wouldn't go that far, Just get the price and then decide. Really need to measure your driving habits to determine your charge need as I said above.

I drive about 35 miles per day roundtrip for work, plus any other driving I may do. On weekends more. I am not necessarily in need of fast charging or charging many miles in a day, but eprosenx convinced me that the Wall Charger is a good thing. One, I would probably buy a second mobile charger to keep in my car after the one that would be plugged in to a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Next, add the price of a good NEMA 14-50 and the price is almost the same.
I was going to replace my panel with 200amps even if I was not going to get an EV, so I don't count that as an added expense. My only issue is that if I get a car other than a Tesla in the future of we add a second non-Tesla EV, then I would have to get additional electric work done.
Thanks to everyone and the great input, I came up with that plan.
 
I drive about 35 miles per day roundtrip for work, plus any other driving I may do. On weekends more. I am not necessarily in need of fast charging or charging many miles in a day, but eprosenx convinced me that the Wall Charger is a good thing. One, I would probably buy a second mobile charger to keep in my car after the one that would be plugged in to a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Next, add the price of a good NEMA 14-50 and the price is almost the same.
I was going to replace my panel with 200amps even if I was not going to get an EV, so I don't count that as an added expense. My only issue is that if I get a car other than a Tesla in the future of we add a second non-Tesla EV, then I would have to get additional electric work done.
Thanks to everyone and the great input, I came up with that plan.

Ok then do the 200amp panel as you said.

Get the wall Charger, I have the HPWC, but there are others that you can use universally with your adapter that will solve all your issues if you think your buying another brand later, or use the UMC if you choose plugged into either Nema 10-30 or 10-50. Getting another UMC is advisable if leaving that one in garage. Don't ever leave the adapter behind, EVER. 24 (nema 10-30)-40(Nema 10-50) amps is more then ample for those driving habits and beyond. They have a HPWC that plugs into Nema 10-50 now also not hardwired.

Lots of choices here.

Good luck
 
Ok then do the 200amp panel as you said.

Get the wall Charger, I have the HPWC, but there are others that you can use universally with your adapter that will solve all your issues if you think your buying another brand later, or use the UMC if you choose plugged into either Nema 10-30 or 10-50. Getting another UMC is advisable if leaving that one in garage. Don't ever leave the adapter behind, EVER. 24 (nema 10-30)-40(Nema 10-50) amps is more then ample for those driving habits and beyond. They have a HPWC that plugs into Nema 10-50 now also not hardwired.

Lots of choices here.

Good luck
You confused me. OK, so I get the Wall Charger. What "others" are you talking about? If I get the Wall Charger, I am not also getting another generic charger.
With the Wall Charger, there is no need for a second UMC since the UMC will stay in my car. That's why I was saying the price of a second UMC, with a good outlet is almost the same price as a Wall Charger. The only issue is a non-Telsa will need new electrical work. No
 
You confused me. OK, so I get the Wall Charger. What "others" are you talking about? If I get the Wall Charger, I am not also getting another generic charger.
With the Wall Charger, there is no need for a second UMC since the UMC will stay in my car. That's why I was saying the price of a second UMC, with a good outlet is almost the same price as a Wall Charger. The only issue is a non-Telsa will need new electrical work. No


You said other electric car, so I said i agreed "wall charger". Tesla would be HPWC charger or UMC. SO was playing out your maybe of another brand of electric car, then even one HPWC could only be used for a Tesla. Where a wall charger with adapter could use for either. Lots of variables here.
 
You said other electric car, so I said i agreed "wall charger". Tesla would be HPWC charger or UMC. SO was playing out your maybe of another brand of electric car, then even one HPWC could only be used for a Tesla. Where a wall charger with adapter could use for either. Lots of variables here.

Oh, heh heh, when I say Wall Charger, I mean the Tesla Wall Charger. I say wall "outlet" if I mean the NEMA 14-50. Thanks.
 
I am taking the easy way out, although the expensive way. I picked a Telsa suggested electrician and am upgrading to 200amp electric panel and the Wall Charger, but probably dialing it down to 30amps. 48amps would charge my car in just a few hours, way less than the length of time it would be plugged in overnight.
Am I dumb to go through all that trouble end expense to use a lower charge than I can get?

So to clarify, you are going to upgrade to a 200a service, but then what capacity wire will you run to the Wall Connector? I am hoping wire that will be good for a 60a circuit (or higher?). Then I would set the Wall Connector to whatever the rating of the wire to the Wall Connector is (as long as that fits in your new overall load calculations).

If I am interpreting your question correctly, you are then planning on setting the car down via software to charge slower, say to 30 amps?

This would be totally and completely fine, though I am not sure there is a huge value prop to slowing down the car charging. Charging even at 48a is vastly slower than a supercharger would charge the battery, so you are not doing any damage to your battery by charging too fast.

One could argue that you are running the cooling pumps for less time and so perhaps 48a is less wear and tear than 30a?

Regardless, if you do upgrade to 200a and do a 60a circuit to the Wall Connector I am sure you will be really happy (regardless of what speed you chose to charge at). I personally come home and plug in every day after work @ 48a and my car is full in about an hour, to an hour and 15 minutes. Massive overkill, but it is always ready for me at 80% when I need it. If the power company comes out with a TOU charging option that makes more financial sense, then I will set scheduled charging to match.

P.S. If you have oil heat and water heating currently and are talking about a service upgrade, have you considered a 320/400a upgrade instead? I am just concerned that if you need to add house heating and water heating and EV charging that you might be bumping up against even a 200a service. Might be worth running the math on that. Sounds like load calculations may have already put you over the limit on your existing 100a service...
 
So to clarify, you are going to upgrade to a 200a service, but then what capacity wire will you run to the Wall Connector? I am hoping wire that will be good for a 60a circuit (or higher?). Then I would set the Wall Connector to whatever the rating of the wire to the Wall Connector is (as long as that fits in your new overall load calculations).

If I am interpreting your question correctly, you are then planning on setting the car down via software to charge slower, say to 30 amps?

This would be totally and completely fine, though I am not sure there is a huge value prop to slowing down the car charging. Charging even at 48a is vastly slower than a supercharger would charge the battery, so you are not doing any damage to your battery by charging too fast.

One could argue that you are running the cooling pumps for less time and so perhaps 48a is less wear and tear than 30a?

Regardless, if you do upgrade to 200a and do a 60a circuit to the Wall Connector I am sure you will be really happy (regardless of what speed you chose to charge at). I personally come home and plug in every day after work @ 48a and my car is full in about an hour, to an hour and 15 minutes. Massive overkill, but it is always ready for me at 80% when I need it. If the power company comes out with a TOU charging option that makes more financial sense, then I will set scheduled charging to match.

P.S. If you have oil heat and water heating currently and are talking about a service upgrade, have you considered a 320/400a upgrade instead? I am just concerned that if you need to add house heating and water heating and EV charging that you might be bumping up against even a 200a service. Might be worth running the math on that. Sounds like load calculations may have already put you over the limit on your existing 100a service...

eprosenx, I have learned so much from you. I will be running 6awg onto a 60amp breaker. I thought I'd turn it down to 24 or 30amp on the wall charger because I don't like leaving things plugged in when they are full. For my phone, once it hits 100%, I pull the plug out. I don't charge overnight so that I hit 100% and then have it plugged in for 4-6 additional hours.
I did not consider higher than 200amp panel. I already have the house heating and water heating via oil, so I don't know what you mean by needing to add it. Gas is not an option at my location.

One last question, would I have to set the car to charge at 24 or 30 if I set the wall charger to that level or will it automatically only try to draw at what is provided by the wall charger? If I have to set the software too, then I might just go with the 48 as I never trust software to always keep those settings. I just hope Tesla didn't subcontract Microsoft for their software ;-)
 
I will be running 6awg onto a 60amp breaker.
Maybe you should consider 2AWG wire instead. In future you get another car with bigger battery or faster charger. Or another car you don't want to share current charger with. You have flexibility to upgrade by changing the breaker. I have the same setup but now I cannot use dual charger on 100d MS. as it pulls 72A. I am only limited to 48A. Luckily I had 6AWG wire before buying the Tesla when I only needed 8AWG to charge my leaf.
 
eprosenx, I have learned so much from you. I will be running 6awg onto a 60amp breaker. I thought I'd turn it down to 24 or 30amp on the wall charger because I don't like leaving things plugged in when they are full. For my phone, once it hits 100%, I pull the plug out. I don't charge overnight so that I hit 100% and then have it plugged in for 4-6 additional hours.
I did not consider higher than 200amp panel. I already have the house heating and water heating via oil, so I don't know what you mean by needing to add it. Gas is not an option at my location.

One last question, would I have to set the car to charge at 24 or 30 if I set the wall charger to that level or will it automatically only try to draw at what is provided by the wall charger? If I have to set the software too, then I might just go with the 48 as I never trust software to always keep those settings. I just hope Tesla didn't subcontract Microsoft for their software ;-)

To clarify, I assume you mean 6awg in some kind of conduit into a 60a breaker? (just making sure since if you use romex 6 awg only does 50a)

So I *really* would advise you not to worry about leaving your Tesla plugged in at all times. If you read the manual or search this forum you will find repeated "A plugged in Tesla is a Happy Tesla". When the car is done charging it signals to the UMC or Wall Connector to de-energize the cable (opening the contactor inside). If it later needs to top off or you tell the car to pre-warm/cool itself via the app, it will signal to have the power turned back on so it can warm up off "shore power".

So my comment on your heating and water heating via oil is that I don't see that a viable solution in the long term. I assume oil is a very expensive way to heat? I would assume a heat pump using electricity would be cheaper? In the NorthWest where I live, Natural Gas is the cheapest, followed by a heat pump, followed by pure resistive electrical heat, followed by propane, followed by heating oil? I might not be 100% right about the order of the last three, but I don't think I am far off. Our power is very inexpensive here and Natural Gas is really really inexpensive. Typically even if you heat with a heat pump you have needed backup electric heat strips which draw immense amounts of power.

So your car will charge at the lowest of the following rates: Whatever the Wall Connector is set to via the rotary dial, the charger size installed in the vehicle, or whatever you set on the computer screen in the Tesla. It is really foolproof as long as the Wall Connector is physically set correctly at install time. I would absolutely set the Wall Connector physically to 48 amps (60a circuit), then if you really want to for some reason you can turn the charge speed down in the car on the computer. But if you do need to charge in a hurry you can crank it right up again.

Maybe you should consider 2AWG wire instead. In future you get another car with bigger battery or faster charger. Or another car you don't want to share current charger with. You have flexibility to upgrade by changing the breaker. I have the same setup but now I cannot use dual charger on 100d MS. as it pulls 72A. I am only limited to 48A. Luckily I had 6AWG wire before buying the Tesla when I only needed 8AWG to charge my leaf.

FWIW, you only need 3 AWG copper in conduit for the full 100a. 2 AWG is even more of a pain to work with than 3 AWG... So I used to commonly suggest folks consider the full 100a capable wire, but at the current time Tesla is not selling any vehicles with chargers over 48 amps (60a circuit). We will see what the future holds (I suspect the truck will likely have a larger charger). There are situations where it makes sense, though right now I am most commonly recommending 3/4in conduit with 6 awg for a 60a breaker. Most people don't have an extra 100a of electrical service capacity laying around. ;-)

Also have a 14-50 outlet installed in the garage along with HPWC. If something goes wrong with the HPWC you have an outlet to plug your UMC.

I did install a 14-50 in my garage in addition to the Wall Connector outside. Part of it was for backup, part of it was so I could also charge inside the garage if I ever needed to, but mostly it was because I was already doing all the work anyway and since I was doing it myself it was under $100 in parts to add... <shrug>
 
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