Am I saving on fuel costs with my MS over my Prius?

[whitex]

Prius and Model S are not comparable this way - one is a semi-budget car and one is a luxury car. If you consider total per mile cost, including depreciation, maintenance and repairs, insurance, cost of capital (interest you pay, or if you have cash, interest you could be earning on the $50K you save by buying a Prius), Model S could be running on free air and still will be more expensive to drive than a Prius. Prius may not be the cheapest transportation either, some econobox that uses a bit more gas but is much cheaper to buy and would likely turn out to be cheaper per mile.

I am a big fan of Tesla cars, but come on folks, Model S is far from the cheapest mode of transportation available. Even Model 3 will not be the dirt cheap transportation you'd recommend to someone on a tight budget.

 

[sandpiper]

Back of the envelope calculations:

My Prius gets about 50mpg, and gas around here is about $1.30/gal (at CostCo). So my fuel cost is 2.6 cents per mile. My electricity here at the house is 11 cents per kWh and my MS burn rate is about 300 Wh per mile, or 3.3 cents per mile.

This surprises me: I thought any ICE or hybrid would compare unfavorably with any electric at commodity grid prices, but it appears it's actually cheaper to drive my Prius.

[Of course the MS is a much nicer car to drive, is faster, looks nicer, is safer, etc.]

Not quite a fair comparison; right now you have dirt cheap gas (which will not last long term), and you're comparing apples & oranges. That said, the cost of fueling a Tesla is really negligible compared to the price of the car. Nobody should look at a Tesla as a money saving move right now. You need to look at it as an investment in the future of our society. They payback will come when low cost EVs rule the day. And in the mean time you get to drive one heck of a nice car at a $/mile cost comparable to an econobox.

Even neglecting AGW, peak oil has not gone away; shale oil and a crappy Chinese economy have just kicked the can down the road a little ways.

 

[RAW84]

The Prius is definitely cheaper, especially in the winter. Unless you meter in every kWh you feed the car, it's costing you much more than 300Wh/mi to run it as well.

Agreed. I'm up around $0.10/mi (or ~470 paid Wh/mi) here in February.

I think too many don't understand what that energy meter is telling them. I didn't until I saw comments on here and started really paying attention to it. I think Tesla could have or rather should have done a better job with the energy use reporting (of course, that still wouldn't include charging efficiency).

 

[Max*]

Yep...I am a pretty smart guy with money. I did that. It's more expensive to insure a $90,000 Tesla than a $55,000 BMW no matter who most have quote. Lots and lots of variables. But I appreciate the advice.

You really should shop around some more then

It cost me about an extra $20/6months (roughly, I can't remember exactly) to insure my Model S than it did for my 9-year old non-luxury sedan, which was an order of magnitude cheaper.

 

[AWDtsla]

No offense, but if somebody can afford a $100,000 car then he shouldn't count pennies IMO.

Logical Fallacy.

 

[JeffS]

You really should shop around some more then

It cost me about an extra $20/6months (roughly, I can't remember exactly) to insure my Model S than it did for my 9-year old non-luxury sedan, which was an order of magnitude cheaper.

Are our risk factors the same?

 

[mobe]

Is it costing me more to drive my S class Mercedes than my VW Jetta?

 

[Max*]

Are our risk factors the same?

I'm not comparing how much I'm paying to how much you're paying, I was specifically addressing this statement:

It's more expensive to insure a $90,000 Tesla than a $55,000 BMW no matter who most have quote.

While the statement makes sense, it's misleading (it is more expensive to insure a car that costs more, but it should not be that much more expensive that it would outweigh the other cost savings).

Hence my comment about shopping around.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Back of the envelope calculations:

My Prius gets about 50mpg, and gas around here is about $1.30/gal (at CostCo). So my fuel cost is 2.6 cents per mile. My electricity here at the house is 11 cents per kWh and my MS burn rate is about 300 Wh per mile, or 3.3 cents per mile.

This surprises me: I thought any ICE or hybrid would compare unfavorably with any electric at commodity grid prices, but it appears it's actually cheaper to drive my Prius.

Total costs to drive the vehicles are much more than the fuel costs:

- Fuel
- Maintenance
- Repair
- Consumables (tires, windshield wipers, fluids, brakes)
- Insurance
- Legal benefits/penalties (HOV lane access, tax credits, etc.)
- Depreciation (or lease payments) if you really want to sum up the total cost of personal transportation.

3.3 cents per mile for Model S vs. 2.6 cents per mile for Prius = $0.007 premium to drive the Model S based on fuel costs alone.

At 15,000 miles per year, this is an annual premium of $15,000 * $0.007 = $105 for fuel. This is a single-digit percentage of your total transportation costs.

 

[NewCow]

Thanks techmaven!

Apparently I can get a special meter to record if I'm using off-peak power:

Xcel Energy - Time of Day Plan


And then tell the Tesla to charge in the middle of the night (I think this is doable, but I haven't seen it on the Android app or on the MS console options).

And yes, gas is going to climb back up in the next year or two, I'm sure.

I don't believe this applies to us in CO. I live in Aurora and called to ask about this but they said it's not available, but they're working to introduce these types of plans in CO.

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If I had solar panels on my roof, I could feel like the MS power is free (I know... I know...), but here in CO we're mostly burning coal to get our grid power. In some places your MS is powered by fracking.

Feel good now?

Xcel does offer Windsource though for ~$0.02/kWh more. We subscribe for 100% renewable to power our house/Tesla.

 

[Az_Rael]

I think the reason people do these calculations (Prius costing less to drive than a Model S) is because of Tesla's own marketing strategy. When you go onto their website to build a model S, the supposed "gas savings" are rolled right into the price of the car shown. When you read the fine print, you figure out that they are comparing that to a 20mpg Mercedes.

I think its a bit lame, and I wish they wouldn't do it.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The problem is the electricity rate that you pay. 11¢/kWh is ridiculously high. Try to get that knocked down. I pay closer to 5¢/kWh and gas would have to fall to $1/gallon before I would be upside down on cost of electricity vs gas.

 

[Az_Rael]

The problem is the electricity rate that you pay. 11¢/kWh is ridiculously high. Try to get that knocked down. I pay closer to 5¢/kWh and gas would have to fall to $1/gallon before I would be upside down on cost of electricity vs gas.

Posts like these make me look forward to moving out of California and back to Texas. 11cents/KWh is what I pay for the absolute cheapest "super off-peak" in the middle of the night here. Normal daytime rates are in the $.25 to $.31 per kWh range. Sigh.

 

[AWDtsla]

Total costs to drive the vehicles are much more than the fuel costs:

- Fuel
- Maintenance
- Repair
- Consumables (tires, windshield wipers, fluids, brakes)
- Insurance
- Legal benefits/penalties (HOV lane access, tax credits, etc.)
- Depreciation (or lease payments) if you really want to sum up the total cost of personal transportation.

3.3 cents per mile for Model S vs. 2.6 cents per mile for Prius = $0.007 premium to drive the Model S based on fuel costs alone.

At 15,000 miles per year, this is an annual premium of $15,000 * $0.007 = $105 for fuel. This is a single-digit percentage of your total transportation costs.

Too generalized. I mean throwing in wipers? Use some rain-x, change wipers once in a decade. Yeah, and I've been using the same bottle of rain-x for about 15 years.. I think it's still about half full. The calculation can swing wildly depending on what you're comparing.

In my past 2 ICE cars fuel has been either the number 1 or number 2 spot in the list of expenses. Yes, even more than depreciation. It's pretty simple. Buy a car for $25k, drive it 160k miles at 20mpg and $4/gallon, you get $32k spent in fuel. That equation changes when you compare to Prius to a Tesla for sure. My napkin math for OP came out to more like $750 extra spent fueling the Tesla over 4 years. A decent chunk of money still.

The worst part is still having the car cost you much more than you think if you trust the trip meter.

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The problem is the electricity rate that you pay. 11¢/kWh is ridiculously high. Try to get that knocked down. I pay closer to 5¢/kWh and gas would have to fall to $1/gallon before I would be upside down on cost of electricity vs gas.

11 is super high? Try paying 20. All the time. 23 last winter.

Thanks deregulation...

 

[alwaysru]

Posts like these make me look forward to moving out of California and back to Texas. 11cents/KWh is what I pay for the absolute cheapest "super off-peak" in the middle of the night here. Normal daytime rates are in the $.25 to $.31 per kWh range. Sigh.

Living in Texas right now - 11.4c/kWh all in this past month. Better than California, but not as good as Arizona apparently.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Posts like these make me look forward to moving out of California and back to Texas. 11cents/KWh is what I pay for the absolute cheapest "super off-peak" in the middle of the night here. Normal daytime rates are in the $.25 to $.31 per kWh range. Sigh.

I don't even have the super off peak. If I did, I'd be paying closer to 2¢/kWh. But I have not changed plans because I am on a grandfathered TOU plan that pays me more in credits at the end of the day. I'd have to agree to new restrictions if I changed plans, along with certain "anti-solar" surcharges that I don't currently pay.

 

[ozweepay]

This main objection(s) to my OP seem to be (mainly) that "There are more costs than just fuel costs." Of course I know this, but my question was specifically about fuel costs. You can tell me I'm silly to consider fuel as a single variable, and maybe that's true, but Tesla does it (they famously factor the potential gas-savings into the "true" cost of a Tesla, in fact!)

I am not complaining about the price of gas or the price of electricity or the efficiency (or inefficiency) of a Tesla. I realize that the price of gas and electricity are largely set by governments, not by the actual cost of these energy sources. So they are somewhat arbitrary, but they are real costs that the consumer bears, and therefore not entirely irrelevant.

I was just noticing that my Tesla costs more to run, mile for mile, than my Prius. Which I found surprising since the fuel cost of EVs is often touted as being much lower than fuel costs for ICEs.

The second objection to my OP seems to be that I am comparing apples-to-oranges. That I cannot compare a Tesla to a Prius as if they were somehow similar. I disagree. My basic needs are met by both vehicles: I need to move my body, my kids, and sometimes some groceries, from point A to point B, reasonably safely, at roughly the speed limit, protected from the weather and road, in a lawful manner. You can tell me about your electric motorcycle or your carbon fiber bicycle, but these don't meet my criteria. The Prius and Tesla both do.

If you want to compare a BMW or Mercedes to a Tesla (based on their cost or weight or luxury feel or whatever) then I could also claim this is apples-to-oranges since the Tesla is safer, faster, has a different feel, etc. It's a pretty arbitrary line we draw to distinguish what cars we feel are "comparable" versus not. I am bowing out of that discussion after noting that I just wanted to compare my two cars which, as I have said, both serve my basic needs.

Anyway, I'm not bitching or anything here... this thread has been immensely useful.

And I am super grateful to this forum's members who seem to be among the most positive (and tolerant) enthusiast community I've yet encountered. You guys almost never flame anyone, even if they're ignorant or Tesla-adverse. Huge kudos.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I don't believe this applies to us in CO. I live in Aurora and called to ask about this but they said it's not available, but they're working to introduce these types of plans in CO.

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Xcel does offer Windsource though for ~$0.02/kWh more. We subscribe for 100% renewable to power our house/Tesla.

Thanks for the info, NewCow. I was excited to see ozweepay's post as I'd searched previously but couldn't find such a plan in Colorado. Oh well.

Like you, I do subscribe to Windsource and 100% of my energy use is covered by wind generation (or solar when I'm at work).

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Hey, at least it will be cheaper to operate a Prius for a short time. Gas will inevitably go back up to $4/gallon or higher.

 

[ozweepay]

Like you, I do subscribe to Windsource and 100% of my energy use is covered by wind generation (or solar when I'm at work).

Question for the two CO posters who are using 100% wind as a power source:

1) How do they give you wind-sourced power when there is no wind? I know CO is windy (at least around my house) but doldrums happen. And power companies can't really store electricity, right? So how do you avoid coal-sourced power?

2) Does it really matter if you source from wind when 99.99% of your city's residents are on coal? Yes, you get to feel good, but does it really have an impact on the planet overall? (I am assuming that the wind-sourced power gets sold to non-subscribers according to general need, but that becoming a subscriber allows you to demand it for your home?! If instead a large subscriber base would spur further wind-sourced power plants, then I agree that is something important.)