An Update to our Supercharging Program

[jgs]

1000miles a yer is peanuts.
I live in Europe and have to travel on bi-wekley basis one way 500km, I am never going to make that without superchargers.

Apart from others' comments that paying for energy consumed is fine... are you sure about that? Looking at the US EPA highway range for the 90D, they give it 303 miles. That's close to 500 km. So, a little bit of a top-up en route [*] gets you to your destination. If you have charging at your destination, that takes you home.

And as we all know, the 100D will be along presently, which will obviously net out at well over 500 km EPA highway, so then you wouldn't need a stop at all. (541 km if we scale the 90D number up by 11%.)

[*] Top-up can be Supercharger or not, you only need to add a few km, so even L2 would probably be OK, or if you Supercharge assuming you take what you need to reach your destination with a reasonable buffer that's just a few kWh so your 400 kWh are going to last for many trips.

 

[jgs]

their plan is incredibly crude and/or disingenuous for a technology company. The whole point of the SC network is to enable long distance trips. 400kW of SC charging is not much long distance travel in a year.

It enables long distance trips just fine with or without a (reasonable) fee, in exactly the same way an extensive network of gas stations enables long distance trips for ICE vehicles. It doesn't enable free long distance trips, but, so what.

And yes, of course you're right that it's a disguised price increase. That's OK by me. It will be interesting to see if it's OK with everyone -- some of the most vociferous complainers (here and on other fora) are non-owners who apparently were viewing "free SC for life" as the killer feature. Which doesn't make much sense but emotions don't always make sense.

 

[Gig103]

For a roundtrip from Seattle to silicon valley (which I make 2-3 times a year), leaving with a full range charge doesn't mean much in the overall tally.

Such trips already take about 50% longer in a Model S than they did in my ICE. Growing the travel cost is rubbing salt in a bit.

You make a good point, IMO, about the added time and inconvenience of route planning around a SpC, plus the time it takes compared to an ICE. I still think Tesla is doing what it has to do (I figured 'free electricity' couldn't last once the M3 debuted), and giving credits is nice.

And at least Tesla is focused on investing in long range high speed charging - GM has "no plans" (link) despite having thousands of dealerships where all they need is CHAdeMO stalls. I know that dealers aren't always near major routes, but they could still invest and aren't.

 

[MP3Mike]

GM has "no plans" (link) despite having thousands of dealerships where all they need is CHAdeMO stalls.

You mean where they need CCS stalls. (The Bolt won't have a CHAdeMO inlet.)

 

[Boatguy]

And at least Tesla is focused on investing in long range high speed charging

Yes, this is Tesla's only strategic (i.e., proprietary) competitive advantage. Essentially everything in the car is a commodity (as is the case in other cars, phones, etc.) and they have not exhibited any competitive strength with regard to the customer experience, or in car user experience.

So while other manufacturers should be able to produce very credible luxury EVs within the next few years, there is no evidence yet that those cars will have a national charging network. I don't hear MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc rolling out a national 150kW L3 network (CCS and/or CHAdeMO).

 

[Saghost]

Yes, this is Tesla's only strategic (i.e., proprietary) competitive advantage. Essentially everything in the car is a commodity (as is the case in other cars, phones, etc.) and they have not exhibited any competitive strength with regard to the customer experience, or in car user experience.

So while other manufacturers should be able to produce very credible luxury EVs within the next few years, there is no evidence yet that those cars will have a national charging network. I don't hear MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc rolling out a national 150kW L3 network (CCS and/or CHAdeMO).

If that's their only proprietary advantage, which other car maker has 100,000 cars on the road making a radar map of every mile they travel?

Which other car maker is building their own DNN for autonomous driving right now, instead of depending on a vendor?

What other automaker does regular firmware updates over the air to add new features?

It seems to me like Tesla has several unique advantages, and the fact that they are shipping eight cameras and a supercomputer in every car they build now puts them well ahead of the curve for a good while - cars that the rest of the industry builds in three or four years will probably be able to match the features that cars Tesla is building today will have then. Probably.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If that's their only proprietary advantage, which other car maker has 100,000 cars on the road making a radar map of every mile they travel?

Which other car maker is building their own DNN for autonomous driving right now, instead of depending on a vendor?

What other automaker does regular firmware updates over the air to add new features?

It seems to me like Tesla has several unique advantages, and the fact that they are shipping eight cameras and a supercomputer in every car they build now puts them well ahead of the curve for a good while - cars that the rest of the industry builds in three or four years will probably be able to match the features that cars Tesla is building today will have then. Probably.

There's also Tesla's huge touchscreen UI, that was scoffed at by most major automakers and the auto press when introduced, but now everyone is trying to emulate.

And there's also Tesla's buttonless start, their performance models (even the base models are no slouch in performance), dual motor. There's a lot of catching up to do for the other automakers.

 

[HyperMiler]

The Tesla that can do these things (P100D) sometime in the future (not now) is priced at approx. $200k in Europe. The service situation is rather challenging, to say the least, and autopilot may not be as high on everybody's list as a car with sufficient range at higher speed levels, decent repair service and protection from price hikes on air filters, windscreen wipers, brakes, tires and proprietary fast chargers. Since the introduction of the 90D, not much improvement has been made available for the non-toy "common man" Model S level, and none of it has been OTA but all of it hinges on costly hardware upgrades requiring to buy a new car.

 

[Az_Rael]

What other automaker does regular firmware updates over the air to add new features?

GM is now implementing OTA updates for their cars. I think the Bolt will be the first one to get it, but I imagine the whole lineup will eventually offer that.

What new features have classic model s's gotten via OTA updates? I think the list is pretty short - GPS homelink if you had a homelink car, but I am not sure what else. Maybe 8.1 will add new media functionality, who knows.

 

[Saghost]

GM is now implementing OTA updates for their cars. I think the Bolt will be the first one to get it, but I imagine the whole lineup will eventually offer that.

What new features have classic model s's gotten via OTA updates? I think the list is pretty short - GPS homelink if you had a homelink car, but I am not sure what else. Maybe 8.1 will add new media functionality, who knows.

Trip Planner.

Remote/keyless start.

Charge level slider (it used to be a couple discreet settings like the Roadster is, didn't it?)

Automatic Supercharger navigation routing, with time estimates for each leg and stop.

Geo tagged suspension adjustment.

I'm pretty sure there are a bunch more, but I never owned a classic car and am going from what I remember from the forums and Bjorn's videos. If you look at the various firmware release notes, you'll see they changed a bunch of things.

 

[dhanson865]

I was quoting the $0.32 given as a price that would not make the electric vs gasoline worth the compromise. There was no math at all for that aspect of the claim.

For the math portion of my example, you're right, it was bad. I said 28 miles when I should have said 28.15 miles

But you missed post:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1819034/

Go back and read that and tell me if you ever think you'll get charging for less than $0.32 / kWh.

Blink overcharges to an extreme. Electricity in my state is under 10 cents per kWh (excluding demand charges). I'd see no reason why Tesla couldn't charge somewhere between free and your 32 cent supposed minimum.

Will they charge 10 cents, 15 cents, or 20 cents in TN? I don't know but I don't expect them to price it for a high margin. I expect them to just price it just high enough to reduce their financial liability to appease the stock analysts.

Anything over 10 cents is enough to dissuade free loaders. They will charge at home for 9 cents instead of charging at the supercharger for 15.

 

[dhanson865]

DC charging during the summer at peak hours....that ain't cheap in CA!

Think average rate not highest rate. Tesla will put Powerpacks on site to time shift the load and reduce demand peak charges. At some point they might even add a token solar installation but I doubt that will matter as much as the battery pack(s) will.

 

[dhanson865]

You could cut that down some by doing a full range charge at home before you leave and at every destination opportunity when on a trip. I guess they will have to revise the "gas savings" in the Design Studio to almost zero.

I've always thought the "gas savings" in the Design Studio should default to almost zero anyway.

I have a Leaf and a Prius. Compared to the Prius the savings were about 1/3 to 1/2 what they advertise and compared to my Leaf the savings is a big fat 0.

 

[jgs]

I've always thought the "gas savings" in the Design Studio should default to almost zero anyway.

I have a Leaf and a Prius. Compared to the Prius the savings were about 1/3 to 1/2 what they advertise and compared to my Leaf the savings is a big fat 0.

And compared to a bicycle both those vehicles are pigs of course. Of course the "gas savings" is understood to be for a like vehicle.

That said, I always thought it was a pretty stupid thing to display and never paid it much mind.

 

[Boatguy]

Anything over 10 cents is enough to dissuade free loaders. They will charge at home for 9 cents instead of charging at the supercharger for 15.

With a EV electric rate and charging between 11pm - 7am, I pay a little more than $0.14/kWh in California.

 

[jerry33]

I've always thought the "gas savings" in the Design Studio should default to almost zero anyway.

I have a Leaf and a Prius. Compared to the Prius the savings were about 1/3 to 1/2 what they advertise and compared to my Leaf the savings is a big fat 0.

At 78,056 miles the Prius used $3,542.37 in gas. The Tesla at 78K miles would have used about $1,800 in electricity if it was always charged at home. This isn't going to match the Design Studio because that's compared to a 7 series or S class.

 

[JAFO]

Seriously? If Tesla's value-add is limited to "free gas" then they've lost. Next thing you know, they're going to have to throw in free lawn furniture and a set of tickets to the game.

Please remind me what competitor is actually providing a competitor to S or X that I can buy today? Or even next year? What is the other charging network to which Tesla's is "just another"?

Ha.. I actually need lawn furniture

 

[Cloxxki]

Imagine solar panels that double als lawn furniture... Most of the time the surface is not used, after all. Looks stylish in the garden or on the deck.

 

[whttiger25]

At 78,056 miles the Prius used $3,542.37 in gas. The Tesla at 78K miles would have used about $1,800 in electricity if it was always charged at home. This isn't going to match the Design Studio because that's compared to a 7 series or S class.

$1800 in electricity for 78,000 miles???

78000 * .31 = 24,180 kwh. 1800/24180 = 7.4 cents per kWh. Is that all you pay?

 

[whttiger25]

With a EV electric rate and charging between 11pm - 7am, I pay a little more than $0.14/kWh in California.

I'm in a condo and have to pay 0.27c