Anyone else tired of the "anti" selling of M3?

[Xevex]

You can't please everybody.

Hard cold fact.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You can't please everybody.

As can be evidenced by you not liking our critique.

No worries, there is plenty of room for different opinions on how Tesla operates.

 

[Jayc]

Some people have very little good to say about Tesla yet, apparently they are desperate to be in the line to get their Model 3. Isn't it sad that the car they long to get has so many flaws yet they still want to go ahead. A bit like negatively critiquing your partner while getting ready for your wedding yet at the same time praising everyone else you see around. Wonder how many of us will get to enjoy our car when we finally do receive it after years of waiting.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Some people have very little good to say about Tesla yet, apparently they are desperate to be in the line to get their Model 3. Isn't it sad that the car they long to get has so many flaws yet they still want to go ahead. A bit like negatively critiquing your partner while getting ready for your wedding yet at the same time praising everyone else you see around. Wonder how many of us will get to enjoy our car when we finally do receive it after years of waiting.

What always amazes me how black or white people see the world. For example I definitely do not associate my feelings for a company or their actions directly with my product buying decisions, they may well be quite separate at times. Sometimes intertwined, other times completely separate. I.e. stock ownership or armchair analysis is often (and should often be) separate from what I need or want in my life and choose to buy.

I'm guessing some are more emotionally attached to the issues and thus their feelings for the company are more closely associated with their feelings for the product, in which case it might be harder to see why someone would feel or think differently.

For example, when I bought my Model S, my feelings about Tesla the company were ravingly positive. By the time I got my Model X in early 2017, my feelings for the company had of course hard two and a half years to cool down, which they had - considerably. I still like the car, and it fits the purpose I bought it for, but granted my feelings about Tesla itself are negative.

Business is business, even consumer business. Better not let emotions run it too much.

 

[hockeythug]

Yeah, Elon, we get it. The S has the "premium" features.

 

[arubinst]

This has just been published by Tesla and announced by Elon on Twitter Compare Model S and Model 3 | Tesla

 

[Jayc]

What always amazes me how black or white people see the world. For example I definitely do not associate my feelings for a company or their actions directly with my product buying decisions, they may well be quite separate at times. Sometimes intertwined, other times completely separate. I.e. stock ownership or armchair analysis is often (and should often be) separate from what I need or want in my life and choose to buy.

I'm guessing some are more emotionally attached to the issues and thus their feelings for the company are more closely associated with their feelings for the product, in which case it might be harder to see why someone would feel or think differently.

For example, when I bought my Model S, my feelings about Tesla the company were ravingly positive. By the time I got my Model X in early 2017, my feelings for the company had of course hard two and a half years to cool down, which they had - considerably. I still like the car, and it fits the purpose I bought it for, but granted my feelings about Tesla itself are negative.

Business is business, even consumer business. Better not let emotions run it too much.

I am not surprised. Not many people get the Tesla magic. Hence why the competition is either dreaming, still vaporware or simply dead.

A mate of mine once called-up the "customer service" line of a very unique two-man startup hifi company and complained of poor customer service - he claims he knows the A to Z of consumer protection law. I sympathize with him.

I plan to wait for my Model 3 knowing it comes from a company struggling against all odds. And I plan to enjoy it fully once I get it knowing it will have faults. It is still going to be the best car I have owned.

 

[electracity]

I'd be shocked if more than 10% of Model 3 reservers have the means and desire to purchase a Model S.

I suspect that a significant percentage of model S buyers don't really have the finances to afford the model S. Looking at the rate of high consumer debt and lack of savings in the U.S. many people are buying stuff that they can't afford.

 

[AustinPowers]

I don't see the so-called anti-selling the way many here seem to. I see it as Elon simply being straightforward about what the Model 3 is and is not. A lot of people felt that the Model 3 would be a cheaper, smaller Model S. I kind of had that feeling at first as well. People buying with that expectation would be very disappointed. Elon (IMO) wants to avoid that by making it clear that at half the price you will get half the car, not merely a smaller car.

Can't say I agree with this at all.
Model 3 will certainly not be "half the car" when compared to a Model S. (Just like a 3-series BMW is definitely not "half the car" when compared to a 7-series). If it really was, I would cancel my reservation immediately.
Model 3 is already, as one can see from the RCs driving around, a cheaper, smaller Model S. Sure, it hasn't got everything the Model S has, but over time I do expect that some of the more important options will be available on the Model 3 as well.
Why should it be different to any BMW, Merc or Audi? You can option out a 3-series for example to rival at least a basic 7-series tech- and comfort-wise. Of course, a 7-series will always offer high-end stuff as options that are not available for the 3-series, but those tend to be options that cater for the (perceived) needs of the relevant luxury demographic. Same with a Model S P100D, which is in the same category, and quite far removed price-wise from a base Model S.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I am not surprised. Not many people get the Tesla magic. Hence why the competition is either dreaming, still vaporware or simply dead.

A mate of mine once called-up the "customer service" line of a very unique two-man startup hifi company and complained of poor customer service - he claims he knows the A to Z of consumer protection law. I sympathize with him.

I plan to wait for my Model 3 knowing it comes from a company struggling against all odds. And I plan to enjoy it fully once I get it knowing it will have faults. It is still going to be the best car I have owned.

Tesla is a publicly traded company with 30,000+ employees.

Trust me, I would think of a two man hifi-shop differently...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why should it be different to any BMW, Merc or Audi? You can option out a 3-series for example to rival at least a basic 7-series tech- and comfort-wise. Of course, a 7-series will always offer high-end stuff as options that are not available for the 3-series, but those tend to be options that cater for the (perceived) needs of the relevant luxury demographic. Same with a Model S P100D, which is in the same category, and quite far removed price-wise from a base Model S.

Well, it could be argued Model 3 should be even closer to Model S because Model S P100D has absolutely none of the things relevat to the luxury demographic.

That is is, though, part of what makes this so hard on Tesla. Taking things away from an already spartan and under-equipped Model S, to differentiate Model 3, requires taking away stuff/options that Audi A4/BMW 3 buyers take for granted...

I wish they'd rather start equipping Model S better...

 

[sandpiper]

Well, it could be argued Model 3 should be even closer to Model S because Model S P100D has absolutely none of the things relevat to the luxury demographic.

That is is, though, part of what makes this so hard on Tesla. Taking things away from an already spartan and under-equipped Model S, to differentiate Model 3, requires taking away stuff/options that Audi A4/BMW 3 buyers take for granted...

I wish they'd rather start equipping Model S better...

Yep. And I'm sure that there's a team at Tesla working like mad to do just that. They're smart people and they hear the noise from the peanut gallery. The big question is "when?". Tesla has been in panic mode developing the 3 over the last 2 years. It may well be that they've let other important projects, like the "next S", slide.

 

[xav-]

Model 3 played a big factor in us ending leasing a Chevy volt last year

Other contributing factors
- very poor reliability ratings
- very high cost of repairs past warranty
- anticipated auto pilot upgrade

If Tesla had a better warranty we probably would have purchased the model S (e.g something like 6 year warranty with 100k miles).

I won't be as concerned about repairs/warranty as much in the first place with the much cheaper model 3.

Looking back (AP 20 disappointment etc) I am very glad we did not purchase the model s.

 

[JeffK]

If Tesla had a better warranty we probably would have purchased the model S (e.g something like 6 year warranty with 100k miles).

As you may know their powertrain warranty is 8 years unlimited miles which is very good and the limited warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles which is quite competitive... same as buick, volvo, 10k miles less than Infinity, longer and more miles than GM...

If you want longer then you're stuck with hyundai, mitsubishi, or a kia.

 

[SoCalGuy]

This has just been published by Tesla and announced by Elon on Twitter Compare Model S and Model 3 | Tesla

No power lift gate??? How is that "premium"?

 

[anticitizen13.7]

That is is, though, part of what makes this so hard on Tesla. Taking things away from an already spartan and under-equipped Model S, to differentiate Model 3, requires taking away stuff/options that Audi A4/BMW 3 buyers take for granted...

I'm looking at BMW USA configuration for a 330i RWD sedan, list price $38,750.

There are no cameras or sensors standard. Base headlights are projector rather than LED. Navigation is extra. From a feature standpoint the 3-series is not well equipped at the 39k price point. Model 3 at 35k will have more standard sensors, a much bigger display, LED headlights, and probably Navigation too.

The big question mark is the quality and plushness of the interior: seating positions and automatic adjustments; materials; interior lighting; trim & headliner; storage bins; sound system. I'm not expecting Model 3 to be more than Acura-level in terms of these attributes, but at 35k that should work for most customers. Personally, I prefer interiors that are focused more on utility than plushness.

 

[jelloslug]

No power lift gate??? How is that "premium"?

wut?

 

[Mark Z]

No power lift gate??? How is that "premium"?

If you have to manually lift the rear trunk lid, chances are it won't get scratched on a low concrete beam in a parking structure.

 

[Foxhound199]

No power lift gate??? How is that "premium"?

Somehow, someway, I'm able to dig down real deep and summon the strength necessary to lift my own dang trunk. It might not be what you would consider the glamorous life, but miraculously I manage.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'm looking at BMW USA configuration for a 330i RWD sedan, list price $38,750.

There are no cameras or sensors standard. Base headlights are projector rather than LED. Navigation is extra. From a feature standpoint the 3-series is not well equipped at the 39k price point. Model 3 at 35k will have more standard sensors, a much bigger display, LED headlights, and probably Navigation too.

You really think Model 3 will start at 35k and not at 45k upon launch? Well, I guess we shall see. Also, those Model 3 sensors will not do much without autopilot packages added, so it is just a different approach for Tesla to included them. I'm not saying there aren't areas where Model 3 as standard will be better equipped (of course there will be), as Tesla makes different trade-offs, but the bigger problem is that there won't be much that can become better through options and that's a HUGE part of the Audi A4 type of car...

The big question mark is the quality and plushness of the interior: seating positions and automatic adjustments; materials; interior lighting; trim & headliner; storage bins; sound system. I'm not expecting Model 3 to be more than Acura-level in terms of these attributes, but at 35k that should work for most customers. Personally, I prefer interiors that are focused more on utility than plushness.

You forgot things like Heads-up Display, Model S like graphical instrument cluster... these are utility features. Both available e.g. on Audi A4. Same with rear-seat entertaiment screens. Seat ventilation, also available on the Audi A4...

And the Matrix LED lights. Those are beyond anything Tesla offers in functionality.