Anyone thinking about an VW ID.4 Instead?

[Reeler]

Looks like the ID.4 cute-UTE from VW will be out around the end of the year. Pre-orders start next month. 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 electric car: Everything we know in advance of full reveal

Things we can expect over the Model Y:

• Apple Carplay / Android Auto (w/o a $10 charge to use media and map options)
• CCS supercharging
• Heated steering wheel
• Instrument cluster
• Heads-up display
• Federal $7,500 tax rebate
• German fit / finish
• Nationwide dealership service

I don't expect it to be a Tesla killer, but competition is good and EM is very competitive. Maybe we will see a CCS adapter and Carplay / Auto support finally. I will be first in line for the LR AWD version.

 

[LevelHeaded]

As a second car to the Y I'm considering it. But what it's missing is sub-7-second 0-60, autosteer let alone autopilot, proven history of regular software updates, 300+ mile EPA range, etc

 

[jerry33]

I had a VW once. Never again.

 

[xtnvieira]

I had a VW once. Never again.

Same. Had a VW Jetta Diesel. I’m never trusting them with my money again.

 

[Reeler]

As a second car to the Y I'm considering it. But what it's missing is sub-7-second 0-60, autosteer let alone autopilot, proven history of regular software updates, 300+ mile EPA range, etc

I expect it will have all that, but we'll see at the reveal. Autosteer and adaptive cruise are pretty standard today. Acceleration like that is typical in EVs. They have OTA software update capability. The battery is 87 KWh which is larger than the Model Y.

 

[Blue_Skies]

I expect it will have all that, but we'll see at the reveal. Autosteer and adaptive cruise are pretty standard today. Acceleration like that is typical in EVs. They have OTA software update capability. The battery is 87 KWh which is larger than the Model Y.

Larger isn’t necessarily better. Doubt it will be as efficient as the Tesla. Nor will it get OTA updates that increase efficiency?

 

[richyrich]

I expect it will have all that, but we'll see at the reveal. Autosteer and adaptive cruise are pretty standard today. Acceleration like that is typical in EVs. They have OTA software update capability. The battery is 87 KWh which is larger than the Model Y.

It will be interesting if all this spec is true. The ID.3 definitely does not have OTA updates - they were scrambling to do each car with laptops after all the issues they had getting the software to work. I can't imagine the software and company practices have come all that far in the time they've had. It will be interesting to see if they do a decent job of the whole system, CarPlay etc - I had tons of VWs over the years and generally the sound system and software sucked badly, was sluggish and there were never upgrades - you had to go to the next model year most times. Not promising for what we're used to with Tesla improvements.

I'll also be put off by a) no widespread, easy charging network and 2) having to deal with stealers - rumour is you'll "negotiate" the final price with them - no doubt at that point (when you're on the hook) they'll try to target you with the 100 extra add-on services and insurance.

Also will be interesting to see whether there is a servicing need - if there isn't I'm sure most dealers will have surprising "extra special offers" on gassers when you get in touch to finalise the ID.4 deal - they make a lot more from ICE servicing over years than they will selling you one EV and never seeing you again.

 

[LevelHeaded]

I expect it will have all that, but we'll see at the reveal. Autosteer and adaptive cruise are pretty standard today. Acceleration like that is typical in EVs. They have OTA software update capability. The battery is 87 KWh which is larger than the Model Y.

87 kWh yet probably under 250 EPA range based on current knowledge

 

[Uncle Paul]

Future cars always look fantastic, because all we know about them comes from their marketing department.

VW has a history of poor quality, misleading customers, defrauding govenment regulators and generally being un-ethical.

They tend to be very arrogant as well.

Imaging they will make some pretty good EV's but they are running late to the party.

Currentlly I feel best about Tesla. Feel they are by far the market leader in EV technology.

Hate buying from legacy dealerships as well. They make you grind with them for over 4 hours, just to get a starting price, then haggle financing, additional dealership markup, market pricing and protection coating. Am done with all that.

Tesla needs to work on panel fittment and paint quality. Those are mostly Ego items that really do not effect the functionality of those cars.

PS. Love my Tesla.

 

[DanDi58]

From what I have read, the software for the id4 is a bit of a mess right now, partially done by 3rd parties and partially by VW. They are trying to bring it in-house, like Tesla, so we will see what it looks like. And looks like id4's for US consumption will be built in Chattanooga, TN, so not sure about the 'German fit and finish'... I've owned several VW's in the past and have had good luck with them (one German built, one Mexico). But in the year+ before we see them in the US, who knows what strides Tesla will have made.... So they are chasing a moving target.

 

[BlindPass]

I had a VW once. Never again.

Yet you bought a Tesla? You are a glutton for punishment!

 

[tashtibet]

since watching diesel gate-no more VW

 

[Reeler]

since watching diesel gate-no more VW

A bunch of brands got busted for faking their MPG numbers. VW got the most press, but almost everyone was cheating: 6 Vehicle Emissions Testing Scandals - How Car Makers Are Cheating Emissions Tests

 

[eevee-fan]

A bunch of brands got busted for faking their MPG numbers. VW got the most press, but almost everyone was cheating: 6 Vehicle Emissions Testing Scandals - How Car Makers Are Cheating Emissions Tests

Fortunately, you cannot cheat on EV emission numbers.

 

[kavyboy]

VW has a history of poor quality, misleading customers, defrauding govenment regulators and generally being un-ethical.
They tend to be very arrogant as well.

Yeah. I'd hate to with that. Tesla has never suffered from any of those things.

 

[Reeler]

Fortunately, you cannot cheat on EV emission numbers.

There is already "cheating" as Europe, US and China have different range standards so the same car has different "ranges" depending on which standard was used. Many believe Tesla is gaming the numbers as most don't get the advertised range. Many brands with lower advertised range hold up better in the real world than Tesla they say.

Plus, things like how heating is done affected real range numbers. Tesla finally added a heat pump in their Model Y only about 7 years after other brands started. That alone made their range numbers a joke in cold climates.

No heated steering wheel by Tesla on their lower priced models also means more cabin heat is used, but that doesn't show in the numbers. In my Nissan LEAF, I could run the steering wheel heater along with the seat heaters with my jacket on and use almost no cabin heating. This really stretched the range.

Gaming is a part of life and every business does it. Certainly Tesla does.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'm sure many people are.
I wouldn't myself because they're a murderous criminal (corporations are people too) and I don't need to risk buying from them. I wish the US government had forced them to buy back their vehicles and then shut them down, or at least denied their vehicles any subsidies. Instead they were forced to build a charging network deisgned for their future vehicles. Oh, the horror.

Besides that, they're not going to sell either of their EVs I'd actually want. (Large part of why I'm not planning on buying a Tesla either). I'm still stuck considering a Bolt, for pity's sake.

 

[Reeler]

I'm still stuck considering a Bolt, for pity's sake.

I prefer driving my Bolt except when AWD is needed in the winter where I live.

 

[jerry33]

Yet you bought a Tesla? You are a glutton for punishment!

Both the 2013 S and the 2020 X have been about 50 times more trouble free than the VW. Been driving Teslas for over seven years now and 137K miles. Great reliable cars with very good service--not that they've needed much service. Can't say that about the VW. I think it went in every month, had to be towed at least once a year. Now I wouldn't purchase anything other than a Tesla.

 

[asa8080]

There is already "cheating" as Europe, US and China have different range standards so the same car has different "ranges" depending on which standard was used. Many believe Tesla is gaming the numbers as most don't get the advertised range. Many brands with lower advertised range hold up better in the real world than Tesla they say.

Plus, things like how heating is done affected real range numbers. Tesla finally added a heat pump in their Model Y only about 7 years after other brands started. That alone made their range numbers a joke in cold climates.

No heated steering wheel by Tesla on their lower priced models also means more cabin heat is used, but that doesn't show in the numbers. In my Nissan LEAF, I could run the steering wheel heater along with the seat heaters with my jacket on and use almost no cabin heating. This really stretched the range.

Gaming is a part of life and every business does it. Certainly Tesla does.

Leaf do not have battery cooling, right? While that good to have range as declared at 100F , the bad it will last for year or two. So many leafs have battery halved in 5 years because it’s not cooled. So there is a dilemma: got less range in summer but battery is 90+% in 5 years or got your epa number in first couple of years and watch it dying in next few? Obviously Nissan and Tesla took two different ways. Buyers to decide.