Are Dual Motor 3 rear motors basically RWD 3 rejects?

[ewoodrick]

Absolutely the Ds are getting my rejects.

(talking about stupid conspiracy theories)

 

[adaptabl]

Motors are designed to spec. There is always a tolerance on what is considered acceptable, performance is going to be no different. If a motor is put on a vehicle it has met the specifications and is rated to operate within it's designed limits.

Going on the assumption that the motors in all model 3 vehicles are the same design, I don't see any way that the RWD and AWD-P motors are "better" than the non-P AWD cars. Non-P cars are software limited, that is the only way that the power rating for the rear motor is the same on RWD and AWD-P. Having a common drive unit design/architecture across all variants makes the most sense from a cost perspective.

If there is any major difference in performance than there is an engineering/production problem. Any mass production manufacturer should never have a process that results in wide variance of production pieces.

 

[voip-ninja]

It is possible that there is some small cost saving material difference in the PM motors of DM non P cars.

We just won’t know initial someone takes one apart or Tesla publishes technical data (not bloody likely).

The idea that Tesla has some huge variation in the output of these motors and sends the crap ones to DM production is just laughable.

 

[golfpilot]

These motors are likely binned the same way computer chips are binned. Example: 4790 chips that are locked to 3.6 ghz Then there is a 4790k, which is programmed to run 4-4.5 ghz. Many people have K chips that can run at 5Ghz or higher overclocked.

So they are probably testing each motor and the ones with slightly better capability are the ones that they use in the P. If you put an 'AWD' motor and unleashed it to perform like a Performance you may or may not encounter problems, but with AWD programming it will be just as relilable.

Not sure if any of that makes sense

 

[xpitxbullx]

The RWD could go a LOT faster with a software upgrade. The wiring and circuitry is what wouldn’t be able to handle the massive output. So in the P version, almost all the components and wires are upgraded. Throw in the front motor and you got jaw dropping supercar speed.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Given the P3 and RWD 3 have the same rear output I have been wondering if the standard dual motor cars are getting rejects that didn't make the cut for RWD or P series 3. What do you think?

Model 3 is actually a rejected Model S that didn't come out of the oven fully baked. What kind of ridiculous question is this?

 

[MP3Mike]

The RWD could go a LOT faster with a software upgrade. The wiring and circuitry is what wouldn’t be able to handle the massive output. So in the P version, almost all the components and wires are upgraded.

Where is your proof to back up any of that.

 

[voip-ninja]

The RWD could go a LOT faster with a software upgrade. The wiring and circuitry is what wouldn’t be able to handle the massive output. So in the P version, almost all the components and wires are upgraded. Throw in the front motor and you got jaw dropping supercar speed.

What bodily orifice did you pull that hyperbolic gem out of?

 

[xpitxbullx]

Imagine...

You have a 30w speaker (motor) connected by thin, but good enough, speaker wire to a 1000w amplifier (traction battery) that stays within the power range of the 30w speaker so it doesn’t blow (software limited). No issues. Runs as expected.

Now imagine swapping out the 30 W speaker with a 2000w speaker and not upgrading the thin wiring and connectors. Add a second 1000w amplifier (front motor). Crank it up to 2000w and watch the wiring catch fire and damage anything it's touching.

Electronics common sense. The RWD traction battery uses the same 2170 lithium-ion batteries as the P. Components are upgraded from the battery pack all the way to the motor. Wiring is upgraded. Maybe some extra cooling features. I can guarantee our rear motors are the same except with beefed up connections and components.

Now, of course, I exaggerated the numbers to make it more clear. In reality, they tell you our rear motors in the RWD generate 271 hp but I guarantee you that’s software limited to save the motor from frying the wires and components that were installed on the RWD. You can crank CRAZY power into an AC induction motor and as long as the components can handle it, it will output insane hp. Performance model is a perfect example of upgraded components that can handle it.

 

[mongo]

If there is any major difference in performance than there is an engineering/production problem. Any mass production manufacturer should never have a process that results in wide variance of production pieces.

Tell that to the SiC MOSFET supplier...
For reference a ROHM SCT3030AL N-Channel SiC MOSFET has a 25 C on resistance of 30 mOhm nominal 39 mOhm max, a 30% variation. That means 30% more heat generation at the same current level.

ST SCTH90N65G2V-7, is 18 nominal and 26 max, a 44% range.

 

[Daniel in SD]

The P is 33% quicker than the LR. They added a front motor with 50% of the power of the rear motor so now they have 150% of the power. Do the math. It's not rocket science There's no reason for the rear motor to be any different.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Tell that to the SiC MOSFET supplier...
For reference a ROHM SCT3030AL N-Channel SiC MOSFET has a 25 C on resistance of 30 mOhm nominal 39 mOhm max, a 30% variation. That means 30% more heat generation at the same current level.

ST SCTH90N65G2V-7, is 18 nominal and 26 max, a 44% range.

But how much power is being lost in those MOSFETS? The total drive unit efficiency is very high and probably only a very small amount of power is being lost in the switching transistors. Is there a teardown that shows the heatsink size for them, that would give you a good idea.

 

[xpitxbullx]

Think of it more as overclocking your motor. All the motors have to fall within the specs given to the manufacturer. You can’t take an AC induction motor and say, “It outputs x horsepower”. That is determined by how much energy is being delivered to it.

You CAN, however, find the one that falls closest to perfect specifications and say, “This motor is less likely to fail if pushed harder”

 

[run-the-joules]

I think that is untrue, and frankly ridiculous. If you think that is the case you need to provide evidence to back up such an assertion. WIthout evidence, your post is nonsense.

Take a breath, kiddo. He asked if it's a thing, he didn't say that it was.

 

[Atari2600]

My concern is not wanting uncorked performance etc. I am just thinking about MTBF. Anything off an identical production line that is binned for mechanical or electrical performance differences is normally not the same for reliability. I don’t want a McDonalds frozen patty I want a steak to eat at normal speed.

 

[MP3Mike]

Imagine...

You have a 30w speaker (motor) connected by thin, but good enough, speaker wire to a 1000w amplifier (traction battery) that stays within the power range of the 30w speaker so it doesn’t blow (software limited). No issues. Runs as expected.

Now imagine swapping out the 30 W speaker with a 2000w speaker and not upgrading the thin wiring and connectors. Add a second 1000w amplifier (front motor). Crank it up to 2000w and watch the wiring catch fire and damage anything it's touching.

Electronics common sense. The RWD traction battery uses the same 2170 lithium-ion batteries as the P. Components are upgraded from the battery pack all the way to the motor. Wiring is upgraded. Maybe some extra cooling features. I can guarantee our rear motors are the same except with beefed up connections and components.

But Tesla isn't doing that. The rear motor in both the RWD and Performance models are rated at 211kW. They haven't upgraded anything, except maybe software.

The wiring for the front motor is separate from the back motor, so that will be all new in the AWD and Performance version. (And again rated identically in those two models.)

 

[animorph]

If Tesla is really seeing about half AWD and 10% Performance orders, then AWD non-P could be getting the bottom 40% of the rear drive units. It's not like getting the bottom 5%, AWD is stressing them less than RWD, and they were all made the same way. If anything the AWD non-P rear motor should last a bit longer than RWD. With any luck Tesla will run out of reject motors and have to put a normal one into my AWD.

 

[xpitxbullx]

But Tesla isn't doing that. The rear motor in both the RWD and Performance models are rated at 211kW. They haven't upgraded anything, except maybe software.

The wiring for the front motor is separate from the back motor, so that will be all new in the AWD and Performance version. (And again rated identically in those two models.)

Do you think people with AWD delivered already could upgrade to Performance with a simple software update? That’s a hard pill to swallow.

Now, that will only work if he made all the AWD models Performance to eliminate producing multiple variants, then software limited it in hopes of you asking for the upgrade later for tons more cash like he did with the Model S batteries.

 

[Canikony]

Do you think people with AWD delivered already could upgrade to Performance with a simple software update? That’s a hard pill to swallow.

Now, that will only work if he made all the AWD models Performance to eliminate producing multiple variants, then software limited it in hopes of you asking for the upgrade later for tons more cash like he did with the Model S batteries.

I would not be surprised at all if it was all just a software lock to keep the AWD different from the P. That said, I can't imagine Tesla allowing for it without charging an arm and a leg.

 

[P85_DA]

I would not be surprised at all if it was all just a software lock to keep the AWD different from the P. That said, I can't imagine Tesla allowing for it without charging an arm and a leg.

Not the case in S X world the batteries actually have upgraded fuses(H/W) for the Ps..curious why they would increase cost in battery without guaranteed revenue ...has anyone seen battery pack part numbers to confirm if same pack ?