Arizona Superchargers (location speculation, discussion)

[gjunky]

Map (see post #1) updated with final Kingman information

Update: I create a URL shortcut in case someone wants to type it in:
http://goo.gl/uS881K

 

[rsquared99]

I decided on the spur of the moment this morning to try the Surprise to Flagstaff to Kingman and back to Surprise trip. Turned out to be easy. I went 60 mph on 303 (+5); 70 mph on 17 and 40 (-5) and 65 on 93 (+0). Got coffee in Flagstaff and salad in Kingman, so no strain. Drive was easy. I've got some mileage and charging figures and a couple of pictures that I'll work on tomorrow. It was fun.

 

[Monsoon]

@rsquared99, Nice run! I assume you driving a MS85, correct?

Those of us in a MS60 can't quite make the stretch from Phoenix to Flagstaff, without some serious planning, warmer weather, and hypermiling.

Nonetheless, great run. Please post photos if you have them.

 

[iridium]

@rsquared99, Nice run! I assume you driving a MS85, correct?

Those of us in a MS60 can't quite make the stretch from Phoenix to Flagstaff, without some serious planning, warmer weather, and hypermiling.

Nonetheless, great run. Please post photos if you have them.

Really? I would think it wouldn't be too much of an issue. I would think you'd need to be a bit careful, but wouldn't need to go to extremes.

But hey, I'm new to the area and have never been up to Flagstaff.

 

[Monsoon]

But hey, I'm new to the area and have never been up to Flagstaff.

From my home in North Phoenix, EVTripPlanner puts it at 172 rated miles. (There are two pretty significant elevation climbs to get there.) My MS60 only gets 196 miles on range charge, so yes, it's doable, but I would be cautious.

 

[jomo25]

It would be tough for a 60. Kishdude did a trip from The northern edge of the Phoenix area last year in an 85 and shared his experience. Plus factor in that when the temps are great in phx, it's cold in Flagstaff. And when it's nice inFlagstaff, it's pretty hot in phx.

I'm in Tempe with a 60. I'd only make the trip with a planned stop in Anthem to top off at the blink stations there. And would still be cautious. Something I might try in the coming months...

 

[iridium]

From my home in North Phoenix, EVTripPlanner puts it at 172 rated miles. (There are two pretty significant elevation climbs to get there.) My MS60 only gets 196 miles on range charge, so yes, it's doable, but I would be cautious.

That explains it.. when it mapped it out from my place it is 148 miles. At 172 I would be nervous too.

 

[ZBB]

rsquared99:
Did you happen to track your kWh usage from Surprise to Flagstaff? If you used under 55kWh, then us 60 owners shouldn't have a problem making it up the hill.

Monsoon & jomo25:
We're doing a Grand Canyon trip in mid Feb -- so will post our usage going uphill to Flagstaff. EVTripper says we should use 179 rated miles over the 133 actual miles from our house (assuming 45 degrees, 600lb payload and driving the speed limit) -- so I think we'll be OK. I'll likely stop at the Blink charger at the Anthem Outlets to top off just to be on the safe side for this first trip -- especially if temps are a bit cooler than its been the past couple weeks. Longer term, I'm hoping Tesla puts a Supercharger in Camp Verde though...

Edit:
Regarding the elevation changes. EVTripper shows 9600 foot elevation gain, and a 5000 foot elevation drop over those 133 miles. Elevation change alone will use ~52 miles rated range...

Also, we joined on the Arcosanti trip before Thanksgiving -- made it up to Arcosanti and back home with plenty of remaining range. Arcosanti is 54 miles from our house, with about 1/3 of the elevation change to Flagstaff. EVTripper's estimate was nearly spot on for energy use, and we had ~125 miles remaining rated range (even though we drove ~10 over most of the way up the hill -- 20 over in one section to keep up with the lead car...).

 

[Cottonwood]

Regarding the elevation changes. EVTripper shows 9600 foot elevation gain, and a 5000 foot elevation drop over those 133 miles. Elevation change alone will use ~52 miles rated range...

Also, we joined on the Arcosanti trip before Thanksgiving -- made it up to Arcosanti and back home with plenty of remaining range. Arcosanti is 54 miles from our house, with about 1/3 of the elevation change to Flagstaff. EVTripper's estimate was nearly spot on for energy use, and we had ~125 miles remaining rated range (even though we drove ~10 over most of the way up the hill -- 20 over in one section to keep up with the lead car...).

Unless the downhills are very steep, I have found that you get back most if not all of what you put in to go up the hill. It is the net that matters. 9,600ft - 5,000ft is 4,600ft. 4,600ft * 7 rated miles/1,000 feet is 32 rated miles. It is probably much closer to that. If there are some very steep down hills that regen 6-10 miles, you may be down 3 more miles or so.

What Tesla really needs is a Supercharger half way from Phoenix to Flagstaff. Just looking at the map, what do you think of a Supercharger in Cordes Lakes, AZ? It looks pretty good in distance and elevation, and it is also at an intersection of highways.

 

[jomo25]

Unless the downhills are very steep, I have found that you get back most if not all of what you put in to go up the hill. It is the net that matters. 9,600ft - 5,000ft is 4,600ft. 4,600ft * 7 rated miles/1,000 feet is 32 rated miles. It is probably much closer to that. If there are some very steep down hills that regen 6-10 miles, you may be down 3 more miles or so.

What Tesla really needs is a Supercharger half way from Phoenix to Flagstaff. Just looking at the map, what do you think of a Supercharger in Cordes Lakes, AZ? It looks pretty good in distance and elevation, and it is also at an intersection of highways.

I thought before there was good evidence that said it costs 7 mi/1000 ft up, and you "gain" 4 mi/1000 ft down on average. so, it's not simply a net. Meaning a 100 mile trip with 3000 ft up and 2000 ft down was really like a 113 mile trip (100 + 3*7 - 2*4 = 113). So, in that case, even though the net elevation was 1000, the penalty is closer to 13 mi because of the nature of the elevation changes between start and end.

Again, this was just a rule of thumb, and actual conditions could result differently. but i like it cuz if anything it more conservative than assuming you get everything back downhill that is takes to go uphill. Better be safe than sorry, I suppose.

 

[Cottonwood]

I thought before there was good evidence that said it costs 7 mi/1000 ft up, and you "gain" 4 mi/1000 ft down on average. so, it's not simply a net. Meaning a 100 mile trip with 3000 ft up and 2000 ft down was really like a 113 mile trip (100 + 3*7 - 2*4 = 113). So, in that case, even though the net elevation was 1000, the penalty is closer to 13 mi because of the nature of the elevation changes between start and end.

Again, this was just a rule of thumb, and actual conditions could result differently. but i like it cuz if anything it more conservative than assuming you get everything back downhill that is takes to go uphill. Better be safe than sorry, I suppose.

I have no idea where that "good evidence" came from. I have never seen it driving up and down the mountains of Colorado, and it does not make sense on a basic physics level. What I have seen is very good correlation with 7 miles per 1,000 feet up and down. Remember most downhills don't do that much regen...

Will post more of the reasoning later; for now; trust me. :wink:

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Unless the downhills are very steep, I have found that you get back most if not all of what you put in to go up the hill. It is the net that matters. 9,600ft - 5,000ft is 4,600ft. 4,600ft * 7 rated miles/1,000 feet is 32 rated miles. It is probably much closer to that. If there are some very steep down hills that regen 6-10 miles, you may be down 3 more miles or so.

What Tesla really needs is a Supercharger half way from Phoenix to Flagstaff. Just looking at the map, what do you think of a Supercharger in Cordes Lakes, AZ? It looks pretty good in distance and elevation, and it is also at an intersection of highways.

How about the Anthem area? Hampton Inn Anthem is around 111 miles to Flagstaff, 148 miles from Tucson.

 

[ZBB]

Unless the downhills are very steep, I have found that you get back most if not all of what you put in to go up the hill. It is the net that matters. 9,600ft - 5,000ft is 4,600ft. 4,600ft * 7 rated miles/1,000 feet is 32 rated miles. It is probably much closer to that. If there are some very steep down hills that regen 6-10 miles, you may be down 3 more miles or so.

The drop into Camp Verde is a pretty steep drop -- there are couple emergency truck ramps for example. Elevation drop is close to 3000 feet over 10 miles or so.

What Tesla really needs is a Supercharger half way from Phoenix to Flagstaff. Just looking at the map, what do you think of a Supercharger in Cordes Lakes, AZ? It looks pretty good in distance and elevation, and it is also at an intersection of highways.

Camp Verde would be a better location than Cordes Junction (I've never seen any lakes...). Their intersecting highway at Cordes Junction takes you to Prescott -- but Prescott (pronounce: "press-kitt" by the way) is reachable from Phoenix in a 6o). There are more places off the highways from Camp Verde -- Jerome, Cottonwood, Sedona, Pine, Payson. Plus, the elevation gain to Flagstaff is all from Camp Verde...

 

[Cottonwood]

How about the Anthem area? Hampton Inn Anthem is around 111 miles to Flagstaff, 148 miles from Tucson.

Anthem is nice, but a little close to Phoenix. If you look at the 2014 map, there appears to be a Supercharger at Casa Grande or so. That with Cordes Lakes would be a nice combo. Also, Cordes Lakes looks pretty good for a balanced distance perspective:

• Buckeye to Cordes Lakes - 88 miles
• Cordes Lakes to Flagstaff - 80 miles
• Casa Grande to Cordes Lakes - 115 miles

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Anthem is nice, but a little close to Phoenix. If you look at the 2014 map, there appears to be a Supercharger at Casa Grande or so. That with Cordes Lakes would be a nice combo. Also, Cordes Lakes looks pretty good for a balanced distance perspective:

• Buckeye to Cordes Lakes - 88 miles
• Cordes Lakes to Flagstaff - 80 miles
• Casa Grande to Cordes Lakes - 115 miles

Just trying to figure out the whole area, including the Supercharger for Tucson - Vegas and southern route across to Tucson. I'm just working off numbers.
Casa Grande to Wickenburg is 109 miles/124 mile looping around Phoenix.
Marana to Wickenburg is 153/169 miles.
Gila Bend to Casa Grande is 63 miles.
Gila Bend to Marana is 103 miles.
Casa Grande looks good as another intersection except for people going from Gila Bend through Tucson.

 

[Monsoon]

Anthem is nice, but a little close to Phoenix. If you look at the 2014 map, there appears to be a Supercharger at Casa Grande or so. That with Cordes Lakes would be a nice combo. Also, Cordes Lakes looks pretty good for a balanced distance perspective:

• Buckeye to Cordes Lakes - 88 miles
• Cordes Lakes to Flagstaff - 80 miles
• Casa Grande to Cordes Lakes - 115 miles

I just spent far too long squinting at the Tesla Super Charger roll-out map and moving the slider back-and-forth. I agree with Cottonwood, Casa Grand is likely in 2014 (to the extent the map is "accurate") and from there it looks like Arizona only gets one more in 2015, up in the northeast, possibly Payson, Heber, or Showlow area. Beyond that, no more little red dots "planned" through 2015. Something midway between Phoenix and Flagstaff would be nice, but I'm not counting on it anytime soon.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I just spent far too long squinting at the Tesla Super Charger roll-out map and moving the slider back-and-forth. I agree with Cottonwood, Casa Grand is likely in 2014 (to the extent the map is "accurate") and from there it looks like Arizona only gets one more in 2015, up in the northeast, possibly Payson, Heber, or Showlow area. Beyond that, no more little red dots "planned" through 2015. Something midway between Phoenix and Flagstaff would be nice, but I'm not counting on it anytime soon.

It would be nice to have a supercharger in Sedona.

 

[ZBB]

Casa Grande looks good as another intersection except for people going from Gila Bend through Tucson.

Gila Bend to Tucson is only ~120 miles -- so shouldn't be an issue...

 

[thranx]

Definitely Cordes Junction/Lakes. Halfway or so to Flagstaff and on the highway turnoff to Prescott. Makes a r/t to Sedona easy, also, without any need to charge in Sedona itself.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone might consider dropping a line to [email protected]. There are charging stations at four Kohl's stores in Arizona and they are continuing to add them at their locations across the country. There is a Kohl's in Prescott Valley. There are also two Marriott Springhill suites in Prescott itself...another company boasting of its level 2 charger installations. We should chivvy Marriott as well.

 

[rsquared99]

Perhaps this has been discussed before, but the Supercharger list in my car shows 114 miles to Flagstaff from my home. When I select Navigate, the distance to Flagstaff shows 142 miles. Is this the "as the crow flies" distance vs the road distance? On the other hand, the car list 142 miles to Kingman and the navigation range shows 142 miles. So, this simply means that the crow and the road distances are the same?