And the fact that you can drive the car with enthusiasm shall we say for a fraction of the cost of doing so in the S550 means a lot more to others as well. I doubt the S550 gets anywhere close to the 17mpg city rating if you are gunning it at on ramps and enjoying the power of the engine at $4/gallon.
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Ask Me Anything -- Motor Trend's Jonny Lieberman Defends Picking the Benz
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Hey Jonny, love your show and nice to see you out here. I'm not really sure if Model S can "SMOKE" M5 (or any performance ICE) on track. As I recall Motor Trend dropped Model S from the 2013 Best Driver's Car event due to cooling problem of battery. http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20819-MOTORTREND-Best-drivers-car/page7
To be fair Model S was never a $100K+ car, it is simply a $60~70K premium performance EV with $50K prepaid energy tank (aka, battery). Essentially Tesla is offering new business model to the automobile market, not just a car.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, you are debating it. You said:
That's not true, and I showed you the scientific studies on point. So now you fall back onto "drive a Leaf". Why not ride a bike? You have lost all credibility with me. I originally gave you credit for coming here and supporting your opinion but now I see you are a contrariain that relishes in conflict -- and that's why you are here.
On the range anxiety issue, I'm another that had a real concern about range anxiety before I bought this car. After driving it for three months, I have none, and that includes driving 300 km over two mountain passes to my cabin. You say we are just justifying our $100k purchases, but in the same breath mention someone who did not. So what is it? You really think we all suffer from range anxiety but deny it to ourselves? Or we deny it everyone else? That's just absurd.
I really wish you picked another profession where your opinions don't affect my children's future.
Hey Jonny, love your show and nice to see you out here. I'm not sure if Model S can "SMOKE" the M5 on track tho (or any performance ICE). As I recall Motor Trend drop the Model S from 2013 Best Driver's Car event due to cooling issue of battery. Some members on the forum also discussed about it: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20819-MOTORTREND-Best-drivers-car/page7
IMO, to be fair Model S was never a $100K+ car, it is simply a $60~70K premium performance EV with $50K prepaid energy tank (aka, battery). Essentially Tesla is offering new business model to the automobile market, not just a car.
William13
Active Member
@jonny,
I love my Tesla Model S as do most of those on this forum. I spent three times as much on it as any prior car. I would buy it again. Because of your review I checked out the Mercedes. I agree and have previously stated here that the seat is better in the Mercedes. Most owners who have experience will agree about the seats. The interior is very very different otherwise. I find beauty in simplicity, efficiency and clean lines. I find all other car interiors (especially your favorite tricked out Mercedes) to be jarring to my sense of harmony after over one year of the Tesla Model S.
Yes MB has softer leather and can go faster than is legal in my state. Yes MB can gas up at over 100,000 places in the USA. Yes MB can avoid some collisions. I would not buy the MB if it sold for only $62,500. I would not spend that much for a car other than a ground breaking,beautiful,fun,zen-like,grin producing,crowd pleasing,environmentally friendlier,smooth,instantly responsive,and electric Model S.
Every day (Indiana) people ask about my car. Everyone aspires to it. Few people give the MB a second glance. Did anyone ask you about the MB other than coworkers? If you drive a Tesla outside Southern California you will be noticed.
By the way it is liberating to drive past gas stations. Do you really think that the three wars we have fought in the Mideast during the last 25 years shouldn't be counted towards the safety of a car? Externalities are ignored at our peril.
I did appreciated your review and understand that the MB is the current pinnacle of ICE luxury cars in your opinion (likely accurate).
The Tesla is however the best car FOR the planet showing the world that we can enjoy a future that is better than the ICE present.
I voted with real money.
I love my Tesla Model S as do most of those on this forum. I spent three times as much on it as any prior car. I would buy it again. Because of your review I checked out the Mercedes. I agree and have previously stated here that the seat is better in the Mercedes. Most owners who have experience will agree about the seats. The interior is very very different otherwise. I find beauty in simplicity, efficiency and clean lines. I find all other car interiors (especially your favorite tricked out Mercedes) to be jarring to my sense of harmony after over one year of the Tesla Model S.
Yes MB has softer leather and can go faster than is legal in my state. Yes MB can gas up at over 100,000 places in the USA. Yes MB can avoid some collisions. I would not buy the MB if it sold for only $62,500. I would not spend that much for a car other than a ground breaking,beautiful,fun,zen-like,grin producing,crowd pleasing,environmentally friendlier,smooth,instantly responsive,and electric Model S.
Every day (Indiana) people ask about my car. Everyone aspires to it. Few people give the MB a second glance. Did anyone ask you about the MB other than coworkers? If you drive a Tesla outside Southern California you will be noticed.
By the way it is liberating to drive past gas stations. Do you really think that the three wars we have fought in the Mideast during the last 25 years shouldn't be counted towards the safety of a car? Externalities are ignored at our peril.
I did appreciated your review and understand that the MB is the current pinnacle of ICE luxury cars in your opinion (likely accurate).
The Tesla is however the best car FOR the planet showing the world that we can enjoy a future that is better than the ICE present.
I voted with real money.
That's a nice summary. If the fact that it has an EV drivetrain (instant torque, flat torque to 80mph or so, single gear, minimal moving parts in the motor...etc) along with cheap fuel, fun factor and waking up with a full 'tank' each morning don't factor into your decision at all then yes, of course the S550 with a $20,000+ higher base price is a 'better' car. It should be but the fact that many people are moving over to the Model S from these luxury alternatives that are on their 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th+ generation and 100+ years of engine refinement says a lot. The Model S is still a first generation car with all the problems that entails. It would not normally be and should not be better than the S550 but to many, it is for many reasons.
If you enjoy 16mpg driving and a plush interior then the S550 is definitely a better car. If you allow yourself to consider other aspects of owning a car then it becomes more of a real comparison.
SCW-Greg
Active Member
A lot of people spent 2x, 3x, or more for the Model S - over any car they've previously owned.
How many people have done that to get the sensory overloaded interior of the S class?
How many cars can claim attraction from the left and right sides of the isle, stretching from lower to upper incomes, and from the green minded to the performance minded. A very wide appeal for some crazy reason.
The S class? That's a pretty nichey market right there.
Priorities indeed.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
I find when I get into discussions with ICE fanatics, after they get cornered, they all claim to drive regularly from Nowheresville Idaho to Cantfinditongoolemaps Arkansas. And there are no superchargers in a direct route now or planned from their point A to point B ergo ICE is better.
I think there are even higher concentrations of Teslas in the Bay Area, particularly Silicon Valley.
Honestly comments like the first one above come across as trollish. You're certainly most welcome here, but please try to elevate the conversation instead of bringing it down.
As for the Leaf, it more efficient merely because is a smaller car - it has less wind resistance because of that. My Tesla Roadster is a much more efficient car than the Leaf, because it is even smaller. By that logic we should all be driving something really tiny regardless of our transportation needs. The point is irrelevant to any discussion and just comes across as argumentative. All electric cars are massively more efficient than any gas powered car, regardless of size.
Actually, it's the motor that gets too hot, not the battery pack.
To underline this point, these are totally inappropriate for my transportation needs, but also totally awesome:
100% Electric Motorcycle : Brammo Empulse and Enertia Home
ZERO MOTORCYCLES – The Electric Motorcycle Company - Official Site
:biggrin:
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Reading through Lieberman's posts, he's made some very bizarre statements. Do you think we are being scammed by an impostor? If not, then he really seems to be one odd person:
"TRUTH! as the kids would say."
"And if you really cared... Leaf."
"Even if I had a Supercharger in my bed and only had to drive 5 feet"
These are really bizarre comments coming from a supposedly professional vehicle reviewer / journalist. Then he doesn't even know the batteries are liquid cooled and claims they overheat. And he needs to consistently drive at 155 mph and he drives 300 to 500 miles a day on average and tells us he's "weird"? He's weird all right. A downright nutcase it seems.
We must have been taken in here. Good job to whoever did it. I like a good prank.
"TRUTH! as the kids would say."
"And if you really cared... Leaf."
"Even if I had a Supercharger in my bed and only had to drive 5 feet"
These are really bizarre comments coming from a supposedly professional vehicle reviewer / journalist. Then he doesn't even know the batteries are liquid cooled and claims they overheat. And he needs to consistently drive at 155 mph and he drives 300 to 500 miles a day on average and tells us he's "weird"? He's weird all right. A downright nutcase it seems.
We must have been taken in here. Good job to whoever did it. I like a good prank.
William13
Active Member
That statement shows how little you understand basic logic and rational analysis.
It is the sort of irrational post that trolls make just to get people irritated.
I find this extremely hard to believe. Are you sure you got used to driving electric? Those damn gear shifts make ICE cars sluggish and unresponsive. Once you get used to it, pretty much everyone agrees that the Model S drives better than every ICE. Period.
Maybe you have a different definition of "drives better", which doesn't involve responsiveness. I simply do not believe that a car which operates off anything but a direct-drive electric motor can be as responsive.
You should try actually driving exactly 5 feet in the Mercedes. :wink: Bet you can't do it. In the Model S you can. It is the most awesomely low-speed-maneuverable car ever. Good for tight parking (which is important considering how huge the Model S is).
I think we've all agreed that the Model S is no good for you if you are driving more than 300 miles per day (which you are), or if you can't get a 220V 50A socket installed at home (which you could, but didn't for a review), and that the Model S has a very Spartan interior, and that it doesn't go Autobahn speeds -- those are all valid reasons to prefer another car. It doesn't have adaptive cruise control or other "car thinks it's smarter than the driver" features; they'll probably be in next year's model, but I get that as a complaint, although I don't agree.
But I just don't get some your other reasons. You seriously think something else "drives better"? I'm not even sure what you mean, since you explicitly excluded extreme handling from that description (Model S can be a little floaty on turns). The Model S is more instantly responsive than any ICE car can be.
I haven't driven a new S550, so I really have no way of knowing whether it's a better car than the MS. It wouldn't surprise me; as others have said, it's the pinnacle of 110+ years of automotive development by a company that's been doing this a long time.
But as I said in the other thread, the very fact that we are even having this conversation--that we are comparing a BEV from a California start-up against a top of the line Mercedes with a straight face--means Tesla is the real winner, no matter how nice the S550 is.
But as I said in the other thread, the very fact that we are even having this conversation--that we are comparing a BEV from a California start-up against a top of the line Mercedes with a straight face--means Tesla is the real winner, no matter how nice the S550 is.
Yeah, whoever he is you gotta give him credit. Not every joe blow TMCer can start a thread that posts 14 pages in 5 hrs !
Pilot_51
Member
From the video, and the fact that it made the cut from hours of recording, I got the sense that range anxiety was one of the few heavyweight deciding factors.
I was rather shocked (not necessarily surprised, being journalism) to find out in this thread that you reviewed an EV without a proper power source at home and didn't mention it in the review.
If, like about 99% of Model S owners, you didn't have to think about filling up and always started each day full, how much difference would it make in your opinion?
On the flip-side, if like most people with an S550 who drive like you, you had to pay for the gas at 17mpg without compensation, would that also impact your opinion? I'm going on the assumption that Motor Trend covers the cost of gas for car reviews.
If you factor those in, I don't really see how the S550 comes close to the Model S, even though it is a night club on wheels. I have a feeling the lights will get a little boring after a few months (as pretty lights have always done for me before), really just something to show off and has pretty much zero impact on actual driving experience.
I'm buying Model S because I don't like to waste time and money on gas and maintenance, and I like the flexibility of choice with how cleanly my vehicle is powered and where I fill it up. Also safety and reliability was a major factor, something that turned me away from the Leaf or Focus Electric as a stop-gap car. Just to name a few of very many reasons. Before Tesla, I would have never imagined spending over maybe $30k for a car if I were to buy one new. In fact, I can't recall spending more than $1k on anything other than TSLA stock and my Model S deposit, I'm that crazy about saving money and that crazy about Tesla.
I should say that it is my opinion that Model S is the best car, for me in particular. Given the very many different factors that make a car, it is not very wise to say that a car is the "best" or "better" car outside the context of opinion let alone the target market, especially in a professional review subjected to the public microscope.
I was rather shocked (not necessarily surprised, being journalism) to find out in this thread that you reviewed an EV without a proper power source at home and didn't mention it in the review.
If, like about 99% of Model S owners, you didn't have to think about filling up and always started each day full, how much difference would it make in your opinion?
On the flip-side, if like most people with an S550 who drive like you, you had to pay for the gas at 17mpg without compensation, would that also impact your opinion? I'm going on the assumption that Motor Trend covers the cost of gas for car reviews.
If you factor those in, I don't really see how the S550 comes close to the Model S, even though it is a night club on wheels. I have a feeling the lights will get a little boring after a few months (as pretty lights have always done for me before), really just something to show off and has pretty much zero impact on actual driving experience.
I'm buying Model S because I don't like to waste time and money on gas and maintenance, and I like the flexibility of choice with how cleanly my vehicle is powered and where I fill it up. Also safety and reliability was a major factor, something that turned me away from the Leaf or Focus Electric as a stop-gap car. Just to name a few of very many reasons. Before Tesla, I would have never imagined spending over maybe $30k for a car if I were to buy one new. In fact, I can't recall spending more than $1k on anything other than TSLA stock and my Model S deposit, I'm that crazy about saving money and that crazy about Tesla.
I should say that it is my opinion that Model S is the best car, for me in particular. Given the very many different factors that make a car, it is not very wise to say that a car is the "best" or "better" car outside the context of opinion let alone the target market, especially in a professional review subjected to the public microscope.
jerjozwik
Active Member
ive known jonny for years. its him. i would not say he is being a troll, as an observer here who does not own a model S but does own electric cars i can understand some of his point.
as far as the leaf efficiency thing... wikipedia, as incorrect as it sometimes may be has a nice list of BEV cars for sale in the us.
Plug-in electric vehicles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
i used that as my guide when looking for my current commuter. and, along with many reviews which were taken with a grain of salt as they should be i chose something that was efficient and... not terrible.
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