Audi E-Tron GT Versus Tesla Model S: By The Numbers

[TMC Staff]

Battle of the electric sports sedans! The Audi e-tron GT might be seen as a warning shot across the bow of any and all who would offer the world an all-electric sports sedan. That small, select group includes the Tesla Model S, the Fisker EMotion, and the Porsche Taycan, the corporate cousin with which it shares...
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[JamesS]

I always get a kick out of comparisons between a car that exists with a design that's been around for years, and a paper car that "is said to produce/perform/charge at ......." As my grandfather was fond of saying: "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". That also goes for charging. We can see Tesla's charging network, they're committed. But with Audi you have to rely on the commitment of others to produce those charging networks, since they're not in the fuel business. And we have to rely on these third parties to produce those chargers consistently across countries and continents, and urban and rural boundaries; a tall order. I'll believe the specs and the charging infrastructure when I see it. That said, competition, albeit late in the day, is always welcome to us consumers.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

This should probably be revisited in two years time, as paper cars always compare well to production vehicles.

 

[scottm]

Go eTron! This car looks like a clone of model S gen 1... and similar specs on paper to what I get. What's estimated price? Maybe it will be out by the time my S is finished.. but I got my eye on a model 3 perf!

 

[SO16]

Sharp car. I hope it pans out. It will hurt Audi’s ICE sales much moreso than Tesla. For Tesla, it helps legitimize EVs.

 

[HVM]

Correct me on this, but has Audi shown only these E-tron concept cars last ten years, without any actual product? What in this is any different? Where are all the "e-tron all-electric" owner videos?

 

[Cloxxki]

We are looking a the budget version of the Porsche Taycan, right? And it will arrive only after the former has been well established in the market?
By the time this e-tron GT arrives, if Tesla has not upped their game with Model S and X (faster charging, more efficient motors, larger battery options), we'll know that they've actually peaked as toddlers. It will be an 8 year old car that never got to charge faster than it did in the first year. Technology company, you say?
But I do trust Tesla will make an adjustment. The fact that the Mid Range Model 3 also maxes out the Superchargers offers good reasons for hope. Indeed they did not mess up energy density as much as they improved likelihood to overheat when push, charge or discharge. Which IS the way to go, and VW through Porsche, Audi and soon VW are fully on that path.
Why cares for 300+ mile range when a car with 200 mile range is simply quicker to the destination through shorter stops?
Soon enough, charging infra will be close to that of gas stations today. And no, not all over the world. But realize that also in remote areas there are fewer gas stations and it still is plenty. There will not be 300 mile charger leaps on anyone's casual journey.

 

[electracity]

What happened to the super fast charging? 150kW is good, but it's unlikely to beat Tesla in 2020.

I like this Audi, but the Taycan looks like it could be a classic.

 

[ThosEM]

Since we don't really know the e-Tron pricing and the specs given are likely to be for the premium version rather than the base version, it would seem more apples to apples to compare with the Tesla 100D, maybe even the P100D, since you noted the emphasis on "sports" vs "sedan". The very real Tesla would come out looking pretty exceptional in that comparison.

Also, while it's clever of Audi to build in wireless home charging, one doesn't get 11kW to the battery for 11kW from the wall, and it isn't clear that wireless options are even popular with Tesla owners. Moreover, there is no real world experience with the Audi on a high power charger away from home. What will actual max power be and what is the taper like as the battery fills. We have no idea, and you haven't given us that information, which Audi should be able to provide.

 

[skhenry81]

Why would a comparison be done with a 75D? Doesn't GT imply that this is a performance oriented vehicle? IMO a 2018 Model S in its current form beats an E-Tron in range and performance when comparing apples to apples. Please keep in mind that in 3 years a Model S will likely be far ahead of where it is today in terms of charging, range, performance, reliability and overall looks. Just adding my 2 cents....

 

[tomas]

Most important number: 8 years.

That means Tesla has an 8 year head start, but also that the S will be long in the tooth in 2020. It’s really a testament to Tesla’s incredible design on the S that it remains the standard. I don’t expect a redesign for 2020, but I do suspect they could whip out a refresh including stuff like model 3 style display, HUD instrument cluster, cameras instead of rear view mirrors, ventless hvac from 3, and 120kWh battery for 360 mi range and ~<2 second 0-60 that will keep it very competitive.

It will be interesting to see how US VW group dealers respond to influx of EVs. Based on my eGolf experience, they have no interest in promoting. Will VW change their mindset?

Regardless, by 2020, I believe Tesla will not mind ceding some of the S market, as they will be shipping tons of 3s, Ys, and beginning Semis and Pickups. And flagship will be the new roadster. S was a means to an end, not an end.

 

[Cloxxki]

Why would a comparison be done with a 75D? Doesn't GT imply that this is a performance oriented vehicle? IMO a 2018 Model S in its current form beats an E-Tron in range and performance when comparing apples to apples. Please keep in mind that in 3 years a Model S will likely be far ahead of where it is today in terms of charging, range, performance, reliability and overall looks. Just adding my 2 cents....

Some people are stuck in the range anxiety paradigm. With faster charging and more networks to offer it, much less of a need for big range. A 220 mile Audi with really fast charging wil cover a day's driving distance (1000km+) in less time than a 310 mile Tesla at present state of Supercharging.

Plugless charging will be great for busses, trams, taxis, etc. A taxi driver in some locations may never need to plug the car. Start the day at >90% and every moment at the taxi stop it would get 11kW adding to the day's range.
Busses stop all the time but shortly. Would benefit from, say, 4 charging loops of 11-22kW under the length of its bellies. A pretty small battery would then suffice. Same for rail vehicles of course, especially lighter lower speed ones.

 

[tomas]

Some people are stuck in the range anxiety paradigm. With faster charging and more networks to offer it, much less of a need for big range. A 220 mile Audi with really fast charging wil cover a day's driving distance (1000km+) in less time than a 310 mile Tesla at present state of Supercharging.

Plugless charging will be great for busses, trams, taxis, etc. A taxi driver in some locations may never need to plug the car. Start the day at >90% and every moment at the taxi stop it would get 11kW adding to the day's range.
Busses stop all the time but shortly. Would benefit from, say, 4 charging loops of 11-22kW under the length of its bellies. A pretty small battery would then suffice. Same for rail vehicles of course, especially lighter lower speed ones.

Lol. Exactly where is this infrastructure?

 

[Wannabeskibum]

Some people are stuck in the range anxiety paradigm. With faster charging and more networks to offer it, much less of a need for big range. A 220 mile Audi with really fast charging wil cover a day's driving distance (1000km+) in less time than a 310 mile Tesla at present state of Supercharging.

I don't think I agree with this. I would much rather have ~50% more range than even triple the charging speed. Lets take your example of the two cars in a 621 mile road trip. With some assumptions I will say you can get 90% of range leaving your home and after that you would only get about 70% range. Charge to 80% and drain to 10%.

The 220 mile range vehicle would need to stop 3 times (198, 154, 154, 115). The 310 mile range car would need to stop twice (279, 217, 125). If you can't make these 90%/70% splits it hurts the shorter range EV even more. Also if you have to stretch to make it to another Supercharger your charging will significantly slow down beyond 80% charge. I think the Audi has a 95kwh pack so some of your faster charging time will be eaten up by being less efficient.

I am not saying the Audi is terrible by any means. The car is great looking and still covers daily driving with room to spare. I would just prefer extra range to charging speed. There is inherent dead time that is lost whenever you get off the interstate, slower driving, stop lights, driving to the charger, that no amount of increased speed will help with.

 

[skhenry81]

Some people are stuck in the range anxiety paradigm. With faster charging and more networks to offer it, much less of a need for big range. A 220 mile Audi with really fast charging wil cover a day's driving distance (1000km+) in less time than a 310 mile Tesla at present state of Supercharging.

Plugless charging will be great for busses, trams, taxis, etc. A taxi driver in some locations may never need to plug the car. Start the day at >90% and every moment at the taxi stop it would get 11kW adding to the day's range.
Busses stop all the time but shortly. Would benefit from, say, 4 charging loops of 11-22kW under the length of its bellies. A pretty small battery would then suffice. Same for rail vehicles of course, especially lighter lower speed ones.

You have a point but some of us don't want to stop. The next gen Roadster for instance will allow me to drive from Toronto to New York City nonstop. When a production Tesla is able to cover 1000 km on a full charge EV's will undoubtedly be the undisputed champions of the road. Fast charging will also help to solidify the EV space but in order for charging to really smack down gas, a full charge needs to be able to be down in the same amount of time as it takes to fill your tank with gas.

 

[Cloxxki]

Lol. Exactly where is this infrastructure?

Same place where in 2010 the long range Sedan was. And same place as this e-tron GT as we write this.
You can't have it both ways, be on a Tesla forum and not believe in exponential growth ;-)

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Same place where in 2010 the long range Sedan was. And same place as this e-tron GT as we write this.
You can't have it both ways, be on a Tesla forum and not believe in exponential growth ;-)

Yeah, but in Tesla's case there was/is a driver for the exponential growth. None of these companies needs to sell hundreds of thousands of BEVs, and nearly all of them seem to be relying almost entirely on 3rd parties for the infrastructure, where those 3rd parties aren't actually profiting from said infrastructure.

 

[Magellan55]

Isn't the Taycan more of a Model 3 competitor? I recall reading in the past that the Taycan will be smaller than the Panamera, and situated below it in their lineup. Panamera and S are almost identical size. So this E-Tron GT might also be 3-sized (like the i-Pace is). I'll bet pricing will match up closely with M3P.

 

[Cloxxki]

Listen people. Model S was not designed to be built in these numbers. Had it been done today, it would have been done smarter and cheaper.

Yes, on most drive distances over 80% you'd charge more often on a smaller range car. The twist is when you factor in higher charge speed. You spend less time once you go well over theoretical 100% range. Especially if you consume more than typical (and there is more charging to be done.

Taycan is a different league from Model 3. It starts at about double.

If you want to pee in a bottle and just keep driving, you'll be in a very small niche with an issue of buying an electric car to comply with your needs. Better get a Model 3 LR RWD, illegally add a tow hitch and have a 100kWh Tesla pack trailer done and somehow hooked up. You might get well over 600mi EPA that way.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I can't say I pay that much attention to the numbers.

On my Model S Tesla claimed 240 miles. Did I ever reach that? HAHA

On my Model 3 Tesla claims 310 miles. Will I ever reach 300 miles? HAHA

Real world range is a lot different.

There is also the whole charging infrastructure. As much as I want an Porsche/Audi EV I'm not sure I'll get one in the next 2-4 years because of the lack of a SuperCharging like network. I'm not too impressed with what Electrify America is doing.

I'm also more interested in an SUV.

Why is there so much obsession with EV cars?

Can we get a REAL SUV? I'm sick of these princesses that you have to handle with a delicate touch.