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Auto Pilot vs. lane sharing motorcycles
- Thread starter joebiker25
- Start date
Dang. Thanks for that info. I have been walking to work for the past month and have lost touch with the local/state news without car radio.
MDMGSO47
Member
Apparently not everyone's humor radar is operating today. I'll go back and add a smiley face.
Wuggado?
Member
I do not ride a motorcycle, but my understanding is that the reason for allowing lane splitting by motorcycles is because most of them don't have radiators, they are cooled by air flowing around the engine. In stop and go traffic, very common in LA and the Bay Area, obviously there is not enough air flow to keep them from overheating. I have not read the law, but would guess the right to lane split goes away above a certain speed.
As for natural selection, my guess is accidents are most often attributable to the idiots driving the cars, not the motorcyclists.
Well said, Wuggado? !!! Lane splitting was allowed a long time ago to prevent air cooled bikes from overheating while idling in stop and go traffic. I believe it is an efficient way to move traffic along if done safely. Even though I am a biker, I realize that there are many idiot bikers who split lanes unsafely and at excessive speeds. The vast majority of bikers are just trying to get from point A to point B safely so please keep an eye out for them. I see far more texting, make up applying, shaving etc. car drivers everyday as I commute into work!
ok, back to our regularly scheduled programming on Tesla AP and lane sharing...
ok, back to our regularly scheduled programming on Tesla AP and lane sharing...
DDotJ
Member
Yep, I disengage AP whenever I see a motorcycle coming up on my right side. It happens about 3 times when sitting in traffic on the 55 NB in about a span of 20 minutes. I always see motorcycle drivers getting mad at people in front of me for not giving enough space. I pull to the left to let them pass while in the HOV lane and then re-engage AP. I know that Model S can't see an approaching motorcycle until it's already right next to the car so I disengage out of an abundance of caution
jeffro01
Active Member
What a silly and misinformed statement to make. I'm a rider, I lane split, and I can promise you cars are for more of a danger to me than I ever am to them. You wouldn't believe the behavior I see every single day I ride my bike, yet you have the nerve to call the motorcyclists "idiots"...
Jeff
GasKilla
No Gas Know Peace
You can actually "nudge" your MS over to the left and keep autopilot engaged, it's slow but with just enough pressure (but not enough to disengage AP) you can move your car over in a lane. Works best in slower stop and go traffic, but you kind of have to keep constant pressure pulling to the left. If you pull too much AP disengages but TACC stays on ... sometimes you have to pull quickly if you want to get out of the way but the nudging works if you have some time to move over
EVie'sDad
Member
rear view camera's like the ones used in the bmw i8 demo'd in Las Vegas in January might allow the car to see upcoming motorcycle traffic and take corrective action before the driver even notices the bike is approaching.
Ed Hart
Member
Lane-splitting bikes have brought several challenges for AutoPilot, and Tesla is listening...and sometimes responding:
1. Move-Over: focusing on California carpool lane use, it is highly desirable to move to the left when a motorcycle is coming up from behind. I have asked for "more elastic steering", meaning the ability to lightly steer further away from lane center without disengaging AutoPilot. It is a significant technical challenge, but I think we may see something on this.
Anyone else have thoughts not the desirability of this?
2. Lane-Splitting Motorcycle Causes Speed Change: A more serious problem was highlighted a few months ago. While creeping (20mph, or so) in carpool lane at medium distance and with the system tracking the car ahead (meaning tracking its path and speed - tracked car is blue), a lane-splitting motorcycled passed me and briefly moved into the gap between my car and the tracked car. My radar pickup of the bike, showing a blue bike icon, then accelerated my vehicle trying to track its higher speed. Of course, the motorcycle quickly moved right to pass the car ahead, meaning my radar was going to go back to the tracked car to reset my speed. Well...the acceleration was so rapid that I took control, hitting the brakes. I was able to video a similar, but less dramatic event shortly afterward to share with Tesla. On a later release, it appears that the same situation caused the motorcycle to appear in red and the system ignored it as a source of speed control information. Great fix.
Sorry about the convoluted explanation. Has anyone else observed this fine-tuning of the system?
1. Move-Over: focusing on California carpool lane use, it is highly desirable to move to the left when a motorcycle is coming up from behind. I have asked for "more elastic steering", meaning the ability to lightly steer further away from lane center without disengaging AutoPilot. It is a significant technical challenge, but I think we may see something on this.
Anyone else have thoughts not the desirability of this?
2. Lane-Splitting Motorcycle Causes Speed Change: A more serious problem was highlighted a few months ago. While creeping (20mph, or so) in carpool lane at medium distance and with the system tracking the car ahead (meaning tracking its path and speed - tracked car is blue), a lane-splitting motorcycled passed me and briefly moved into the gap between my car and the tracked car. My radar pickup of the bike, showing a blue bike icon, then accelerated my vehicle trying to track its higher speed. Of course, the motorcycle quickly moved right to pass the car ahead, meaning my radar was going to go back to the tracked car to reset my speed. Well...the acceleration was so rapid that I took control, hitting the brakes. I was able to video a similar, but less dramatic event shortly afterward to share with Tesla. On a later release, it appears that the same situation caused the motorcycle to appear in red and the system ignored it as a source of speed control information. Great fix.
Sorry about the convoluted explanation. Has anyone else observed this fine-tuning of the system?
That's not how natural selection works. I doubt lane splitting is genetic, and even if it were, humans can't get a license until after they hit sexual maturity.
MDMGSO47
Member
I'd love to be able to offset from center when in the HOV lane. Splitting lanes on the 405 is common and I do move best to move left but it's super annoying disengaging/reengaging. During re engagement the car tends to go far right to find the right edge of the lane which makes it awkward if another bike has sped up in that time.
As an aside, almost daily I see motorcyclists getting mad at people who don't give enough room, and just this morning I saw a dude on a bike flip out on a driver who was changing lanes where the markings allow it, because the car got stuck in stop and go traffic and was effectively blocking the area between HOV and #1 lane. The bike wasn't cut off at the last second or anything like that. The car had been there at least 30-40 seconds while we were all in a total standstill. He just showed up while the car was stuck in limbo. Banged on the window and was yelling when he finally got by then flipped the guy off as he drove away. So if you're a biker that waves thanks to people who move left or otherwise is a decent rider, know that us car drivers deal with idiots like this on the regular.
voyager
Active Member
With lane assist (already standard on a lot of cars) one can envisage sleek car-like vehicles split-lane use freeways too... at least in what's called a bricklayer configuration...
I use AP on about 50 -60 of my daily 70 mile roundtrip commute since I have had the car for 3 weeks now. I tried to slide to a side of my lane when I see/hear motorcycles coming up but that usually disengaged Autosteer. Now I just stay the course and stay centered in the lane...the bikes pass by with enough room and no one has flipped me off yet...As a biker who lane splits very infrequently, I always feel bad about the cars that sometime go off the road and into the shoulder to make room when they see my large and loud cruiser coming up behind them...usually there is plenty of room in the lane if the car is not hugging the right edge of the lane.
IMO, I'd rather have you drive normal when I'm splitting. I will figure it out, like the last million cars.
Splitting lanes might have started when all bikes were air cooled, but that's not why I split. Mostly safety, and secondary to get to somewhere in a reasonable amount of time when too many cars owners decided they want to go 5 mph to work.
Bikes have been mainly watercooled for quite some time now. Heck, they are fuel injected and have catalytic converters.
The reason Lane Splitting on an MC is safer is because cars do not see you no matter where you are. If you are in front of them, they squash into the front car and kill you. If you are beside them, they change lanes into you, squash you and the car behind you kills you.
If half the drivers who could ride an MC or bicycle to work actually did it, our roads would be free flowing and save million of gallons of petrol from ICE cars idling and doing stop-n-go.
It's not the fuel saving from the MC or bicycle itself that reduces air pollution the most, it's the elimination of stop and go driving.
Yes, our EV's pollute MORE than MC's do in the long run due to this congestion factor.
But now that fewer and fewer people pay attention while driving, bicycles and MCs are becoming obsolete. We would rather spend 1 hour a day more stuck in traffic, have dirty air, more accidents, higher insurance, than put down our cellphones until we arrive at work.
We made this decision long ago. Dirty air or texting midget pron links while driving. We like our air dirty, and we like our entertainment short and nekid.
Splitting lanes might have started when all bikes were air cooled, but that's not why I split. Mostly safety, and secondary to get to somewhere in a reasonable amount of time when too many cars owners decided they want to go 5 mph to work.
Bikes have been mainly watercooled for quite some time now. Heck, they are fuel injected and have catalytic converters.
The reason Lane Splitting on an MC is safer is because cars do not see you no matter where you are. If you are in front of them, they squash into the front car and kill you. If you are beside them, they change lanes into you, squash you and the car behind you kills you.
If half the drivers who could ride an MC or bicycle to work actually did it, our roads would be free flowing and save million of gallons of petrol from ICE cars idling and doing stop-n-go.
It's not the fuel saving from the MC or bicycle itself that reduces air pollution the most, it's the elimination of stop and go driving.
Yes, our EV's pollute MORE than MC's do in the long run due to this congestion factor.
But now that fewer and fewer people pay attention while driving, bicycles and MCs are becoming obsolete. We would rather spend 1 hour a day more stuck in traffic, have dirty air, more accidents, higher insurance, than put down our cellphones until we arrive at work.
We made this decision long ago. Dirty air or texting midget pron links while driving. We like our air dirty, and we like our entertainment short and nekid.
jerjozwik
Active Member
@joebiker25 , i use AP religiously on the 210 freeway. every morning the regular lanes are jammed solid and most of the time the hov lane is around 50mph. just a word of caution about leaving autopilot on and just letting the bike split. on occasion i have noticed the car will try to avoid the center divider bulges, places where the center divider gets thicker to accommodate a lamp post / sign / overpass support. so to avoid any unpleasantness for the biker who is splitting, i usually just disable AP all together, drive over the sunset markers and wait for them to pass, then re engage AP.
that being said, watch out for the double CHiP's. i found that if you try to re-enable AP when behind two chp bikes cruising in tandem AP will freak out trying to decide who to follow and the car will ping pong around the lane while flipping AP focus between the two bikes.
interestingly the display will show the two bikes side by side, just does not understand it can follow both of them. maybe with 8.0 its better...
that being said, watch out for the double CHiP's. i found that if you try to re-enable AP when behind two chp bikes cruising in tandem AP will freak out trying to decide who to follow and the car will ping pong around the lane while flipping AP focus between the two bikes.
interestingly the display will show the two bikes side by side, just does not understand it can follow both of them. maybe with 8.0 its better...
I'm sure opinions vary, but as a lane splitting motorcyclist (I didn't own a car for years), I prefer you move as far as practical to the left side of the lane and carry on. If you're that far over to the left and I can't get through, I can wait.
I am very cautious around drivers who move halfway into the shoulder, as it is an indication that they are far more concerned with what I'm doing than what they're doing. They're not focused on the stop and go traffic in front of them. They're not focused on the shoulder debris that I can't see that they're about to swerve to avoid, or that they kick up into me, or that blows out their tire, or...
jerjozwik
Active Member
Aren't you afraid of idiots in cars, not paying attention, swerving into your path as you lane split? Guy spills his coffee, reaches over to grab it, yanks wheel, etc. It's always seemed like Russian Roulette to me (from the perspective of a car driver watching lane splitters).
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