EVNow
Well-Known Member
LOL. You have obviously not followed all the statements about EVs from legacy auto makers.
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Autonomous Car Progress
- Thread starter stopcrazypp
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"Why the BMW iX isn't ready for level 3 autonomous driving
BMW promised the iX would have level 3 semi-autonomous tech. But it doesn't.
Back in 2018, BMW showed the iNext concept car and told us when the real thing launched in 2021 it would be ready for 'level 3 autonomous driving'. Well, it has launched, as the iX. But the autonomous driving (AD) remains a mirage."
Why the BMW iX isn't ready for level 3 autonomous driving
Says the fan of the guy who said they will have one million robotaxis with no one in them in 2019.
Now you are telling us how super Uber their 2024 robotaxi is going to be...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I did.
But unlike you I also understood it
Anyway- as others have asked you, please cite any actual federal regulation at all (or a federal law, or a federal agency that has issued a rule) that prevents Tesla from rolling FSDBeta out to everyone nationwide that owns a Tesla with FSD.
Just name one- city the part of US code, or the published rule in the federal register, etc...
Name it.
Spoiler: You can't. Because there isn't one. Because nothing you've claimed has any factual basis whatsoever.
No, you did not.
Because the NHTSA doesn't say anything like that.
The NHTSA published some SUGGESTIONS FOR THE STATES on how THE STATES might consider regulating this stuff.
Policy Research
NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.
www.ncsl.org
The NHTSA has zero rules, regulations, or laws, governing self driving.
NONE.
You can tell, because every time someone asks you cite one, you jump up and down and insist there is one without citing it.
Also, here's the head of the federal department the NHTSA operates under telling you you're wrong-
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U.S. will see 'meaningful' autonomous vehicle policy in 2020s -U.S. Transportation Secretary
U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on Wednesday said federal policy on autonomous vehicles will undergo "meaningful" developments in the coming years, saying policy frameworks had not fully caught up with technological developments.
www.reuters.com
He thinks they WILL regulate it. Sometime this decade.
Because they don't today you see.
No wonder I'm putting on weight - every time I read TMC there's tons of sugar being thrown about - LOL Can we start using stevia or some alternative form of sweetener?
In all seriousness, I think the confusion is something being regulated and something seeking regulatory approval. Examples of the latter include: adding on to your house without regulatory approval in many cities; building a treehouse in your backyard that can look into your neighbors yard; building a device that transmits EM radiation; etc. Most things in society are regulated, but some things require regulatory approval before even being implemented.
SAE L0 - Regulated but does not require regulatory approval
SAE L1 - Regulated but does not require regulatory approval
SAE L2 - Regulated but does not require regulatory approval (on many, but not all, roads/highways/freeways)
SAE L3 thru L6 - Regulated and requires regulatory approval
There has been some miscommunication/misunderstanding/confusion regarding Tesla FSD (with city streets) that it would be a SAE L3 system. Tesla has clarified that it will be a SAE L2 system and likely remain that way for some time. This is likely to avoid regulatory approval.
This is simply not correct at the federal level.
There is no L2 regulation at the federal level whatsoever.
(there IS a standing general order that any car maker whose L2 system is involved in an accident must report it- but that's it. There's nothing about the SYSTEM that is regulated- it's just a reporting requirement on the car maker).
That's it.
Hilariously one of the links iigs posted to support the claim this stuff IS regulated directly debunked that claim- including the director of the NHTSA points out it's not a true claim.
L2 isn't regulated at the state level either in any state I'm aware of- but if you have a state law to cite showing otherwise I'd love to see it.
L3-L5 are regulated at the state level by some but not all US states.
L3-L5 is 100% legal to put on the road right now with no further approval needed in half a dozen US states.
Since folks keep being unclear on this:
What about regulation for self-driving vehicles? - Marketplace
While availability for autonomous vehicles has increased, regulation has struggled to keep up.
www.marketplace.org
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Go read the actual quote.Says the fan of the guy who said they will have one million robotaxis with no one in them in 2019.
Now you are telling us how super Uber their 2024 robotaxi is going to be...
I don't care about federal regulation, I live in California where it is regulated. We're on the same page here, quit arguing. FFS Knight, sometimes you make agreeing with you and supporting your position painful. If I say 1 + 2 = 3, you'll tell me I'm wrong and that it's (4 - 1) = (1 + 1) + 1.I did.
But unlike you I also understood it
Anyway- as others have asked you, please cite any actual federal regulation at all (or a federal law, or a federal agency that has issued a rule) that prevents Tesla from rolling FSDBeta out to everyone nationwide that owns a Tesla with FSD.
Just name one- city the part of US code, or the published rule in the federal register, etc...
Name it.
Spoiler: You can't. Because there isn't one. Because nothing you've claimed has any factual basis whatsoever.
No, you did not.
Because the NHTSA doesn't say anything like that.
The NHTSA published some SUGGESTIONS FOR THE STATES on how THE STATES might consider regulating this stuff.
Policy Research
NCSL’s experts are here to answer your questions and give you unbiased, comprehensive information as soon as you need it on issues facing state legislatures. We answer more than 20,000 requests for information a year.www.ncsl.org
The NHTSA has zero rules, regulations, or laws, governing self driving.
NONE.
You can tell, because every time someone asks you cite one, you jump up and down and insist there is one without citing it.
Also, here's the head of the federal department the NHTSA operates under telling you you're wrong-
U.S. will see 'meaningful' autonomous vehicle policy in 2020s -U.S. Transportation Secretary
U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg on Wednesday said federal policy on autonomous vehicles will undergo "meaningful" developments in the coming years, saying policy frameworks had not fully caught up with technological developments.
He thinks they WILL regulate it. Sometime this decade.
Because they don't today you see.
This is simply not correct at the federal level.
There is no L2 regulation at the federal level whatsoever.
(there IS a standing general order that any car maker whose L2 system is involved in an accident must report it- but that's it. There's nothing about the SYSTEM that is regulated- it's just a reporting requirement on the car maker).
That's it.
Hilariously one of the links iigs posted to support the claim this stuff IS regulated directly debunked that claim- including the director of the NHTSA points out it's not a true claim.
L2 isn't regulated at the state level either in any state I'm aware of- but if you have a state law to cite showing otherwise I'd love to see it.
L3-L5 are regulated at the state level by some but not all US states.
L3-L5 is 100% legal to put on the road right now with no further approval needed in half a dozen US states.
Since folks keep being unclear on this:
What about regulation for self-driving vehicles? - Marketplace
While availability for autonomous vehicles has increased, regulation has struggled to keep up.
voyager
Active Member
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Yep, that's what doomed Apple. Too bad, they might have had a pretty nice business if only they'd manufactured their own phones!
EVNow
Well-Known Member
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Looks like NYC is implementing a permit process for testing AVs. AV companies will need to apply for a testing permit with the NY DMV. Part of of the permit process will be self-certification that the AVs are safer than humans and that the safety drivers will take over in case of a failure:
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I think that should be the minimum standard for any hands off AVs.
Is it a one line self-certification or do they have to furnish some stats ? I hope they need to furnish evidence .... not just a one line self-certification.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
You can check out the official NY DMV application website here:
Apply for an Autonomous Vehicle Technology Demonstration / Testing Permit
Who can applyManufacturers of “autonomous vehicle technology,” or entities creating such technology working in conjunction with manufacturers can apply to test or demonstrate autonomous vehicles on New York roadways. You must agree to submit your test/demonstration reportYou must agree to submit...
dmv.ny.gov
It is unclear what stats they need to provide but they do need to provide a report on demonstrations and tests:
The AV must also comply with all Federal standards and New York State inspection standards and have a $5M insurance policy. The safety driver must have a valid driver's license and be prepared to take over when required to ensure safe and lawful operation of the vehicle. Safety drivers must be adequately trained. The AV company must also provide a law enforcement interaction plan.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Of which there are none.
(other than the normal ones any car has like "must have working tires and headlights" and stuff.)
Also, would make sense to require a significant amount of money on an escrow account in case the self-certification turns out to be false. Say, $10M of damages paid to State for serious at-fault accident that proves self-certification wrong - in addition to normal consequences.
voyager
Active Member
Tesla Is Betting The Company On FSD: Will Robo-Taxis Replace Personal Cars?
Some people believe Full Self-Driving is Tesla's future, and robo-taxis will replace personal cars. Do you believe it? Here's a look at opinions on both sides.
insideevs.com
"Eventually I see a market where car manufacturers sell more premium cars for a clientele who can afford this (and they'll be much more expensive than now). The masses will have few choices but robotaxis. This could be 15 years from now.... or maybe 10. It really depends on how fast FSD L4 becomes a reality."
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Tesla Is Betting The Company On FSD: Will Robo-Taxis Replace Personal Cars?
Some people believe Full Self-Driving is Tesla's future, and robo-taxis will replace personal cars. Do you believe it? Here's a look at opinions on both sides.
"Eventually I see a market where car manufacturers sell more premium cars for a clientele who can afford this (and they'll be much more expensive than now). The masses will have few choices but robotaxis. This could be 15 years from now.... or maybe 10. It really depends on how fast FSD L4 becomes a reality."
It is a fascinating topic to think about. I do think that the transition to robotaxis will be very gradual over many years. They will likely start in urban areas. But it will likely take time to expand to all urban areas. While that happens, there will be areas, especially outside of urban areas that won't have access yet to robotaxis. Also, we see people that still drive 20-30 year vehicles. People are likely to hold on to their vehicles even when robotaxis are ubiquitous and only give up their vehicle when the vehicle is no longer driveable. There will also be people who are afraid of robotaxis because the tech is new. And there will be people who simply like to drive themselves and don't want a robotaxi. Eventually, could we be in a situation where robotaxis are so cheap and so widely available that nobody feels the need to own a vehicle? Perhaps, that could take decades for the reasons I mentioned above.
I would definitely switch to using a robotaxi full-time if one was available in my area and if it was affordable and convenient (low wait time). The question would be if the robotaxi could go to areas that I need to go to. If not, I would likely keep a personal car for those longer trips. But if the robotaxi could go everywhere that I typically go, I would ditch a personal car.
Hyperion 8 will ship in new Mercedes in 2024 and Jaquars in 2025. That should increase the mapping data input. However, a lot of their mapping comes from survey vehicles, like Waymo and Google Maps use.
AVs that could tow would be great. Not a Semi but a regular AV. Launch a boat tow a camper. Have pickup type AVs deliver Hay and Building supplies.
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