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AutoPilot Crash today-Tesla response less than stellar?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by carnutfan, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. mblakele

    mblakele pre-jackpot member

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    I think your sales rep was repeating a confused idea of calibration of the ultrasonic sensors for autopark. That is supposed to take a little while.

    My experience with a new AP(1) car: I took delivery of the car with 11 miles on it. I drove about five miles on surface streets to a limited-access freeway, merged into traffic and engaged AP. It was fine, even when the traffic turned to stop and go in light rain. I monitored AP closely, but I only had to take over when there was merging traffic. That's always a concern with AP(1), because of its limited sensors.

    I would not have trusted AP with traffic lights then, and I still wouldn't. AP(1) doesn't support traffic lights, and they create excellent opportunities for mode errors in human drivers.
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. theslimshadyist

    theslimshadyist Trampa!

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    Very sorry to hear of this experience, especially because it impacted your buying decision. However, I want to thank everyone here who chimed in to share their experiences & information on AP, TACC, FCW, etc. I now have a much better understanding of the capabilities and differences across these technologies.
     
  3. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    The setting affects FCW not AEB. FYI. OK? ;)
     
  4. ev-now

    ev-now Member

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    It's fascinating to me that many owners are unclear on the different systems in play - so it's not surprising there is confusion for non or new owners - which I will be one of very soon now. So AEB is a 25mph reduction in closing speed once collisions is considered inevitable. This means that the car does not have a "Don't do that!" setting for reversing, or forward maneuvering at low speed - just regular beeping for obstruction proximity - correct?
     
  5. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    There is a ton of confusion not just among Tesla owners, but on all the cars that offer active safety systems. I actually find it a bit appalling, and I hope to see some standardization.
     
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  6. thimel

    thimel Member

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    Correct.
     
  7. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    Despite all the nonsense in this thread, the dealer's insurance will pay for the car. You likely didn't even sign anything anyway, but even if you (your friend) did, an agent of the dealer instructed the driver the car would handle the situation. Done deal.

    I find it interesting that the salesman misunderstood the system capability. Stopped cars are about 50/50 with autopilot. Was this guy on his 3rd day of work?
     
  8. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I had to sign some sort of release when I test drove. It was on an iPad. I am embarrassed to admit I didn't really read it, but they do make you sign something (or at least they do at the Burbank store)


    I do think the sales associate should have kept an eye on the AP status and seen earlier that the car hadn't locked on the stopped vehicle. I wouldn't expect someone test driving to be able to parse that screen, but I would also expect someone test driving to brake for a stopped vehicle when they would normally brake and not overly trust the computer. I overrode AP several times during my test drive when it did things I was not expecting/would not have done myself.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    I like to give advice without ever test driving the car too.
     
  10. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    I skimmed it, don't remember the details.

    IIRC, I test drove 3 times, and each time had to sign the waiver (same store, same owner advocate). They also scan your drivers license with the ipad.
     
  11. schonelucht

    schonelucht Well-Known Member

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    We have no less than three testimonies of independent users in this thread alone about salespeople encouraging irresponsible behavior while test driving. That's enough for me to believe OP's story and if OP is telling the truth, then the salesperson was at fault. Morally for sure and I'll let the lawyers figure out legal responsibilities. OP 's friend didn't get a ticket nor was he asked about his insurance so I guess Tesla and the police agree. Given that three different testimonies about presumably three different salesperson all show the same behavior it is likely that Tesla is lacking in it's instructions towards its sales staff.
     
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  12. u00mem9

    u00mem9 Member

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    ? I couldn't quite follow your sarcasm. If I signed something on an iPad, I don't remember the details. If the OP signed something, I doubt his friend, who was at the wheel when the crash occured, also signed.

    My point is: it doesn't matter. If you think the OP's insurance is paying for the car, you are mistaken.
     
  13. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 100D 2019.40.2.1

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    Usually anyone who plans on driving during the test drive has to provide their license and sign the waiver.
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Charging

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    Everyone who I talked to (both locally and other states) have signed their life away on the ipad. There was a thread (here? maybe on TM) of a person (maybe more than one) walking away because they actually read the agreement on the ipad, and didn't like what it stated.

    So I wouldn't throw out a comment stating that "You [your friend] likely didn't even sign anything anyway", when most (all?) people do sign in order to test drive. They also scan your license with that ipad.


    As for the last part, yes, I agree, I'm pretty sure the Tesla insurance will be picking this up, and not the OPs/his friends. Time will tell.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. W0QR

    W0QR Member

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    I think this is a known issue. The car was pointed UP..nose UP. The radar was overshooting the stopped car. If we could look we would not have seen the car in front painted by the radar.
     
  16. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Well-Known Member

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    Only what I've seen from commercials, like Subaru and Volvo, showing the car come to a complete stop short of a solid wall. Seems like a Tesla won't do that, right?
     
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  17. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    I guess we'll find out when Tesla gets around to making commercials...
     
  18. mhan00

    mhan00 Member

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    #78 mhan00, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
    Dude, what the car sees as stationary wouldn't be an object in front of it where the distance doesn't change, the car would know that means it is actually something that is moving at the same rate of speed as it is. An object that is getting pinged by the radar as approaching at close to the velocity of the car is what the car sees as a stationary object. How you don't get this when you specifically mention police radars being adjusted to take into account the police cruiser's own velocity is a little mind boggling. As others have mentioned, the car ignores stationary objects because they could be a variety of different objects (road sign, soda can, trash can, even a car in the next lane that is stopped on a curved road, or a car that is stopped in a lane over while you're changing lanes) and relies on driver input. At a determined distance where it's clear the object isn't any of these, that's when AEB kicks in for cars with only radar, which is why most (all?) manufacturers have language in their safety system descriptions that the AEB mitigates crashes and generally make no mention of it completely preventing them. Cars with cameras can use image processing to supplement the radar, but even then it isnt super reliable as of yet.
     
  19. mhan00

    mhan00 Member

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    Commercials are different than real life. When was the last time you got a hamburger from McDonald's or Carl's Jr that looked as perfect as the one on TV? Have you ever had a super sexy stewardess walk up to you in slow motion with swaying hips and present you with a six dollar burger while "Like a G6" was playing (if you have, then you're a lucky bastard)? Commercials try to present products in the best possible light. I'm sure there are situations where those cars can stop in time to prevent damage, but I'm also sure that as of yet there are still situations where the car will still crash since the safety systems arent perfect yet. Not coincidentally, that is the same as the Tesla where you have some people on reddit and forums talking about how their Tesla stopped in time or moved itself slightly to avoid a side swipe while others haven't been so lucky. The tech and software isn't at the point yet where it can handle all (or even most) situations with aplomb.

    Speaking for myself and my new Volt, I've had situations where the AEB alerted me when it was completely unwarranted - car stopped in a turning lane while I was in the next lane over, for example - and situations where it would have been helpful if I actually was distracted. I've also had situations where it doesn't go off when I thought it should have (based on my 'Far' setting). The tech isn't perfect yet.
     
  20. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Never mind the last time, the only time I've ever had that happen was when I went to a McDonald's in Tokyo. The food that came out looked _exactly_ like the picture on the menu. Was really noteworthy.
     
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