Might be a bit awkward considering that smart summon basically works like a dead man’s switch. Hard to have your finger hovering over the honk button when it’s already holding down the “go to target” button.
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Autopilot disengagement, driving etc. out of main.
- Thread starter Nocturnal
- Start date
Might be a bit awkward considering that smart summon basically works like a dead man’s switch. Hard to have your finger hovering over the honk button when it’s already holding down the “go to target” button.
#3 was handled correctly, so that is an improvement.
I have disengaged NoA after #4 and drove under basic AP, so I cannot report whether #5 - #7 scenario would re-occur or not (some also dependent on traffic pattern).
dgodfrey
Member
Advanced summon as of right now is a double edge sword. MSM is only reporting on smart summon fails. My co-worker just came up to me and told me about some summon videos he saw on news sites with Teslas causing chaos.
The thing is there's a fine line between being wowed and annoyed when current version of summon is in its baby stage. Hopefully they push out some updates fast to refine the system. It seems like summon is doing most things right, just need to be less cautious and need to turn earlier and more sharply to prevent all the reverses.
It's better to validate that your software works while only going 5MPH than to find out it doesn't at 10.
JusRelax
Active Member
This. 5mph slow, annoying smart summon is 1000 orders of magnitude better than 10mph smart summon that causes significant injuries all across parking lots. They can slowly improve it moving forward at a rate that maintains safety as the highest priority.
Its not the speed. The speed is fine.
What is annoying traffic is the decision making. It stops randomly for random reasons. It also put itself in reverse and drive back and forth because the car doesn't make sharp enough turns until it's too late. The AI currently is no Half Life, it's on the level of Doom 1.
I would like to add that AI decision making is currently the Achilles heel that forces people into making interventions especially trying to exit off a highway during heavy traffic. The car just doesn't know what to do..it'll slow down and sometimes speed up..but can't seem to slow down enough to make the turn or speed up enough to make the turn. A lot of the time there will just be a car parallel to my car and obviously a slight speed up would solve the issue.
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N5329K
Active Member
Wouldn’t it be even better to validate that your software works and is robust and reliable before shipping it and then discovering it only sort of (or even usually) works, and is only sort of (or even usually) robust and reliable?
Except in some rare use cases, like a garage that is really too narrow to park a car and allow doors to open, it seems like a silly party trick to me, and with substantial downside risk.
Robin
You do realize how Tesla is attempting to solve FSD right? You need data. You need edge cases. You need to put the car in different situations and circumstances. That's the only way it gets better.
Some people are perfectly willing to buy FSD to beta test the software. No ones forcing you to buy FSD and forcing you to use Advanced Summon. The negative nancy's are out in full force tonight
Do you know how much problems early light bulbs caused？
Do you have any idea how long it took the society to learn how to use electricity safely?
N5329K
Active Member
I have an excellent idea of how willing I am to live with machines that don’t work reliably. And I have exactly zero patience for complex solutions in search of a problem. “Watch this,” can be a great sales tool when it elicits gasps. It’s not such a great sales tool when it generates laughs.
Robin
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
You would have to be totally out of touch with the car-buying public to think Summon is not a great sales tool! People are amazed by it. The haters are gonna hate anyway.
N5329K
Active Member
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I didn't say she was a hater! She loves Teslas! She actually said, with version 10 and Advanced Summon, the cars are closer than ever to full Level 5 autonomy. Note that she did not say it's ready now, just that this moves them closer to their goals.
Why you so negative on Tesla every post?
Sorry for breaking your bubble, you are now living with machines that don't work reliably every single day. If you live in U.S., chances are your personal information has been leaked to the black market by one of the top credit agencies. The software running in your phone and computers have thousands of security bugs activily being exploited.
Ever heard of 737 max?
May you keep your health and never gonna need one of these hospital vital monitors, I used to do testing against its software...
N5329K
Active Member
I know what you mean. The last time I was hooked up to one it kept false alarming. I disconnected myself from the damned thing and wheeled it out to the nurse station (it was shrieking) and said, “Here. This is yours now.”
Robin
The second half of the video says she is against smart summon being activated in its current form, and that Tesla is doing no favors to itself by enabling like this. She further suggests that Tesla needs to enforce restrictions on SS usage.
I tried SS last night for 15 minutes in a nearly empty area of a parking lot. First thing it did was drive over empty parking spots, then would have blocked a car that was leaving had I not intervened, and finally drove the wrong way down a one way lane.
Although SS is a tremendous technical achievement, I’ve argued for caution before and am in full agreement with her.
SS drives no better than a human on the 2nd or 3rd drive. No one would responsibly let a student driver with SS proficiency drive 5 mph in a busy parking lot, even with supervision in the car.
I still don’t understand why Tesla doesn’t force people to watch a short training clip on best practices for SS. It’s irresponsible to require no training for a completely new way to operate a 2 ton vehicle in public.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
You have misprepresented what she said in a substantial way to try to support your overall negativity but I'm not going to spend the time to detail how (because I suspect you already know).
I guess I grew up taking normal risks, physically, financially, emotionally, etc. I never poked my eyes out with scissors, knives never did more than superficial skin cuts, motorcycle crashes never injured me beyond a sprained ankle or a bit of road rash, picking up broken glass never cut me, skiing off cliffs never injured me and I've certainly never come to any harm by eating food that fell on the floor.
Personally, I feel like the recent movement that pretty much everything in life that's at all fun or exciting is "too dangerous" to be responsible to be laughable. It's getting to the point where a significant portion of society is afraid to leave their own home. So I like Tesla's style on Smart Summon and the idea that it's "too dangerous" is exceedingly funny to me. The "worry-warts" of society need to stand down and let the pragmatic, thinking people take over for a change.
What's dangerous is having real humans backing up their cars in parking lots where small children are. Smart Summon isn't perfect but it's a lot less likely to run over your kids.
Please tell me how I am misrepresenting what she is saying, because I really don't know. I also do not appreciate your implication that I'm being disingenuous. *
For now at least, smart summon is mind blowingly terrifying and getting irresponsible owners into problems, which I think ultimately think will end badly. So far we're seeing cars hit things or get into accidents while using advanced auto summon, hold up traffic in parking lots, and generally causing mayhem because their owners aren't using the feature properly.
In one case someone even tried to get the car to cross a relatively busy shopping mall street, causing the oncoming car to slam on its brakes at the last minute. In every single case it seems to be the case with not the car per se or the software, which Tesla cautions that should be used in private parking lots or private driveways, but a problem with the person doing the summoning and their misinterpretation of what was ok, and what is not.
Tesla is doing itself no favors to itself by activating the software in its current form. Instead I think it could hurt Tesla in the long term.
First, there is no legal framework for such modes of operation. Tesla includes some boilerplate saying the car is the responsibility of the driver, cautioning the car should remain in line of sight at all time. While that may cover Tesla from legal action should anything go wrong, it doesn't take into account other people being in the same space and time as the Tesla and the owner.
I doubt there's a single country in the world that has codified what expectations exist when the car and its owner are operating in this remote mode that has never existed before. That means Tesla and its owners are beta testing this super cool feature in a world that is not ready for it.
As videos in Youtube, Twitter and Facebook seem to demonstrate, summon is a brilliant feature but not infallible. It's only as safe as the person using it, and right now, some of the people using it are taking risks as many do with AP steering. Without rules in place, its very much a wild west out there.
That's bad for other road users, bad for Teslas reputation, and it's also pretty risky. Right now this publicity is probably helping Tesla, but if that turns to negative publicity from someone abusing the system without a formal framework and someone gets seriously hurt, things could quickly get nasty.
As is often the case, the irresponsible ones could ultimately delay proliferation of this technology. That could hinder and not help improve safety on our roads. Legislators are notoriously risk averse, and the current approach could cause knee jerk reactions that are unwanted.
* Edit: Are you mistaking me for someone else, or if not, what is my overall negativity?
I don't think any legislation should prevent you from poking your eyes out, cutting your own skin with a knife, skiing off a cliff, or eating anything you find on the floor. None of those are likely to affect me.
Unlike any of those, improperly operating a vehicle in public can hurt others, which is why you needed to get a driver's license and motorcycle license. We have regulations and certifications to ensure everyone meets a minimum standard.
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N5329K
Active Member
As a pilot, I take well-considered risks every time I fly. I enjoy handling what for some might seem like extraordinary risks. I find low approaches in hard IFR invigorating. Even in severe clear, I am acutely aware that the airplane is not returning to the ground in reusable condition without me doing some of that pilot stuff. Much as I enjoy flying, I would never take off if I suspected a mechanical (or software) issue that put others at risk. That's why after heavy maintenance (like an annual) I always test fly the airplane solo (sometimes I threaten to take the mechanic along, but as a joke). That said, whatever standing at a mall curb while pressing a software button on your phone and watching your car try to ooze its way in your direction is, it is not taking a risk (other than for an insurance battle). It is putting others at risk (that they never signed up for), and plainly at some inconvenience. And for what? Nothing particularly useful I can see. Someone else might have an actual use case. For me, it seems like just a party trick.
Robin
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