diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Well keep in mind that AP is not designed for city driving yet. So it is not surprising that there are quite a lot of city driving scenarios that AP cannot handle.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Autopilot getting worse
- Thread starter talkingevs
- Start date
Well keep in mind that AP is not designed for city driving yet. So it is not surprising that there are quite a lot of city driving scenarios that AP cannot handle.
Yes, accepted.
But I think the message is a bit mixed. I would agree that may be Tesla has no officially made claims about city driving, and in any case claims about ap capabilities are pretty vague when you take car spec and regional / international factors into account. Even so, I think the message is still that ap is 'city aware' and clearly the expectation and need is that owners start exploring city ap behaviour, so it's worthwhile maintaining awareness of what we all experience.
As a previous post in this thread asked, 'do different (hardware &) software levels behave differently?'. Of course the answer is 'yes' but when so much chat and speculation is churning around, it is worth keeping a firm eye on the fact that our cars can and do change and become unfamiliar in their responses to road situations and that the experience of other's today may be ours tomorrow.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I agree that AP is "city aware". But I think we need to wait for "City NOA" before we can really judge AP on its city driving capabilities.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
City NOA will probably come out this year. But regardless, it is not fair to judge AP on city driving before it comes out. You can argue that we need to be aware of what AP can and can't do. True. But AP will continue to struggle with most city driving scenarios until City NOA is released since City NOA is the software that is designed to make AP work in city driving.
Just did a trip from Texas to LA and back. On 40.2.1, the ping ponging especially at night almost made AP unusable at times. During the day I had some, tried the full shut down (waited 5 minutes) which seemed to help some. But at night driving back I had to turn AP/NOA off in certain sections due to so much wobbling as the car tried to avoid trucks.
One positive as someone mentioned is the ability to detect cars on shoulders and to hug the left side of the lane while passing those cars. Did a superb job at that without issue.
One positive as someone mentioned is the ability to detect cars on shoulders and to hug the left side of the lane while passing those cars. Did a superb job at that without issue.
Having drank the koolaid, I am hopeful for great things. Eventually. In the meantime I need to manage my expectations!
Having lived in San Diego for 15 years, I know how streets are set out, road marking conventions and driver behaviour. They are all very different from my experience of French, German, Italian and UK roads. In the UK, city driving needs a lot of driver eye contact. Passing on city streets lined with parked cars requires regular driving against oncoming traffic on trust that those drivers will pull in to a gap to let me pass.... while also expecting the same of me. Towns and villages in rural France and Italy hardly have room for one car to squeeze through in places. Roundabouts. Well, in the UK I reckon most drivers know of at least one and probably several multi-lane, multi-road roundabout that a) they don't really get how the road layout and lanes are supposed to work and b) hate driving on and may be scared of! And roundabouts range from a worn out smudge of paint to a full art installation 20 feet high or even multiple small roundabouts set out around one or more larger central roundabout.... and roundabouts are everywhere.
Toll booths.... 2 freeway lanes with markings (in France) turn into 200 feet wide unmarked tarmac with 20 toll booths, manned, unmanned, electronic payment.
Many streets rely on reflective markers on posts to highlight edges of the street, sharp turns, etc. Auto headlights can't identify the reflection as not being a car coming towards you so turn on and off high beam.
Bus lanes, cycle lanes, zebra crossings.... I mean the list goes on and on. And these car movements are between zero and 10 mph where the car already struggles to make smooth sensible motions. The constant contact with the eye of pedestrians and other road users needed to navigate intersections safely and negotiate passage.
Conventions like flashing headlights can have completely opposite meanings in different circumstances.
In France it is common to leave a turn signal flashing as you drive along in the passing lane on a freeway to say (as only the French can do) 'get out of the way, I'm more important than you!' But it does also signify that the driver intends passing some more cars before maybe pulling in to a slower lane.
This is all fundamental to basic driving on city streets an freeways but not handled in AP at all so far.
Having lived in San Diego for 15 years, I know how streets are set out, road marking conventions and driver behaviour. They are all very different from my experience of French, German, Italian and UK roads. In the UK, city driving needs a lot of driver eye contact. Passing on city streets lined with parked cars requires regular driving against oncoming traffic on trust that those drivers will pull in to a gap to let me pass.... while also expecting the same of me. Towns and villages in rural France and Italy hardly have room for one car to squeeze through in places. Roundabouts. Well, in the UK I reckon most drivers know of at least one and probably several multi-lane, multi-road roundabout that a) they don't really get how the road layout and lanes are supposed to work and b) hate driving on and may be scared of! And roundabouts range from a worn out smudge of paint to a full art installation 20 feet high or even multiple small roundabouts set out around one or more larger central roundabout.... and roundabouts are everywhere.
Toll booths.... 2 freeway lanes with markings (in France) turn into 200 feet wide unmarked tarmac with 20 toll booths, manned, unmanned, electronic payment.
Many streets rely on reflective markers on posts to highlight edges of the street, sharp turns, etc. Auto headlights can't identify the reflection as not being a car coming towards you so turn on and off high beam.
Bus lanes, cycle lanes, zebra crossings.... I mean the list goes on and on. And these car movements are between zero and 10 mph where the car already struggles to make smooth sensible motions. The constant contact with the eye of pedestrians and other road users needed to navigate intersections safely and negotiate passage.
Conventions like flashing headlights can have completely opposite meanings in different circumstances.
In France it is common to leave a turn signal flashing as you drive along in the passing lane on a freeway to say (as only the French can do) 'get out of the way, I'm more important than you!' But it does also signify that the driver intends passing some more cars before maybe pulling in to a slower lane.
This is all fundamental to basic driving on city streets an freeways but not handled in AP at all so far.
Last edited:
For sure.
You're lucky that it handles cars on the shoulders at all. Remember that in Europe as far as I know our visualisations are limited (no trash cans or traffic lights. Speed limits by GPS and often late or incorrect) no text road signs..... So clearly we are getting a somewhat different feature set at the moment.
Been testing AP & NoAP for a while and working with a TMC buddy to record data over the whole of 2019, definitely seeing improvements over time on both motorways and non-motorways.
Tesla Software Update 2019.36.2.4 - More NoAP Performance Data
Most recently on 2019.40.50.7 on non-motorway, getting some good results.
Tesla Software Update 2019.40.50.7 - Take me to Shakespeare 100% on AutoPilot!
Tesla Software Update 2019.36.2.4 - More NoAP Performance Data
Most recently on 2019.40.50.7 on non-motorway, getting some good results.
Tesla Software Update 2019.40.50.7 - Take me to Shakespeare 100% on AutoPilot!
My real concern / confusion is not so much the slowing down (although why it would slow just at that point relative to the off ramp I don't know) but more that when I had set 50 mph limit, the car decides (right at end of video) to set speed to 70mph (of course while I am still in the 50 mph zone.)
That is really odd, I've not heard of the car overiding a driver set 'lower speed' up to 70 on the same stretch of road.
I have seen something similar the other way around, entering a 50 zone and max speed stays at 70, the car knows it's 50 because the speed sign on the dash goes to 50 but the max limit stays at 70 (see video at 16 minutes). No idea why it does this but it's a big bugbear of mine too.
I think the bevaviours are possibly related, but only in so much as setting (or failing to set) the indicated set speed is not tested. The set speed when on ap does iirc on my car 50.7 fsd HW3 drop to match GPS location speed shown in IC display (red) which is good, but does not increase when GPS speed increases. I'm OK with me having to acknowledge increases in set speed.
There is clearly some code hanging around that changes my set speed based on something - usually GPS indicated speed. But I am seeing odd behaviours around on & off ramps where the car does not adjust its speed sensibly (often too slow) but also behaves to match typical US road layouts. Every time I passed an on or off ramp in France (on autoroutes) , AP invited me to move to left to continue my route. This would work in US with their 'merge left' convention where the lane nearest the off ramp becomes the off-ramp and a new lane starts on the far side of the carriageway
That makes me wonder if there is some other convention from the US that's causing the set speed to be reduced outside of my control while driving near to on / off ramps. When the set speed goes up to 70 mph in my video, it is just reverting to the current GPS indicated speed, which in my video happens to be incorrect for the location at 70mph because of temp 50mph limit in force. The exact behaviour happened at 3 previous off ramps, so it wasn't just a fluke.
But why reduce set speed to 45 then 40 when the only data the car had was 70mph GPS speed?
Maybe it followed:
Reduce present speed by 5 mph (=45mph)
Reduce present speed by (another) 5mph (=40mph)
Return to GPS indicated speed. (=70 mph).
Other than where I have seen AP reduce set speed shortly after GPS indicated speed drops (contrary to your video I think), when else does the car take control of the set speed without driver input?
Last edited:
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That's disappointing to hear. I wonder if maybe Tesla is now optimizing AP for AP3 and this has caused AP to work suboptimally on AP2.5 and AP2?
My thoughts as well. Feels like the nn is maxed out after the introduction of deep rain actually
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
At this point, I am not expecting anything more for AP2.5. I am just waiting for my AP3 upgrade now. Tesla told me 3 weeks ago to wait 3-4 weeks and ask again. So I will ask again in a week or two and see if my car is eligible for AP3.
Similar threads
