Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[wk057]

I only "seem reasonably intelligent"? I am exceedingly intelligent. Now I do demand a retraction!

Going to need some more evidence to support this I think before any retractions can be made. :tongue:

I don't get it. Any other company would be sued but Tesla should not? Why the favourtism?

At the risk of going in circles here, I'll point out that no where did I even say that another company "should" be sued either. I simply pointed out that I believed any other car company would have been sued by now.

Why the favoritism? Many people are certainly giving Tesla the benefit of the doubt for one reason or another (hell, even me). Historically, this doesn't seem to be the case with other car companies... but I also don't see other car companies with such loyal followers either. Sure there are some fans, but not gobs of people who will defend the company to the death like you'll find with Tesla.

Also, I don't see the connection between should be sued, and actually suing. I can think of a ton of companies that should be sued, but I would never sue them.

Hmm. I can kind of see the point here. I mean, I can think of companies that should be sued also, but that I have no stake in whatsoever and thus no reason to sue.

In this case, however, I'm directly affected, and if it were my position that they should be sued then I would be suing.

More importantly, you didn't put the "Period" in bold, so it can't be true....

Got me here. Fixed.

 

[kuttakamina]

I just wanted to have the last word in this argument. period.

 

[Canuck]

Ha! Thanks for the laughs and good debating with both of you. Time to call it a night. I hope your summers are going well and autopilot comes out soon. For us who took delivery just before it was announced, we only wish we had your problems!

 

[wk057]

I just wanted to have the last word in this argument. period.

Hmm... I wonder if this works for other stuff.

The 7.0 update is being pushing to my car right now. Period.

*goes and checks*

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Hmm... I wonder if this works for other stuff.

The 7.0 update is being pushing to my car right now. Period.

*goes and checks*

Have you considered expressing your opinions to Tesla upper management, and have you asked to be included in the early release program? At least for your situation, getting into the beta program might get you the software in time for your trip. Tesla might just add you to the beta program to keep you quiet.

 

[rlang59]

Have you considered expressing your opinions to Tesla upper management, and have you asked to be included in the early release program? At least for your situation, getting into the beta program might get you the software in time for your trip. Tesla might just add you to the beta program to keep you quiet.

See the first post in this thread to answer your questions.

 

[Soolim]

Tesla might just add you to the beta program to keep you quiet.

Hahaha, that is a good tip. Now we know if WK07 is quiet, he must be a beta tester :smile:

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I was going to post the name of the gentleman at Tesla who I previously emailed about the early access program, but unfortunately I can no longer find that information. Sorry.

 

[MsElectric]

Hahaha, that is a good tip. Now we know if WK07 is quiet, he must be a beta tester :smile:

Or while depending on beta software to drive the car, he went down a cliff, unexpectedly... :crying:

 

[wk057]

Have you considered expressing your opinions to Tesla upper management, and have you asked to be included in the early release program? At least for your situation, getting into the beta program might get you the software in time for your trip. Tesla might just add you to the beta program to keep you quiet.

I have expressed my opinions to many at Tesla, including notes and phone conversations with some who could be considered upper management. (I've been asked to keep details of those conversations to myself.) As for the EAP, I have no expectation of being added to that program at this point, and I've not asked about this specifically.

As mentioned in the first post of this thread people at Tesla have recommended me for the program several times (multiple Model S owner, far above average miles driven, technical background, etc) but I've not heard anything along those lines other than that I've been recommended.

It seems like it would make some sense from their perspective for me to test the software for them on my long trips. Thousands of miles of road that they may or may not have any autopilot data on already. Some supercharger routes, some not. Would seem like a win-win for both of us. Plus they get the added bonus of me having to keep quiet about it under NDA. lol.

But I really don't expect that to happen, and I'm not going to push them to make such an offer. It's not my intention behind any of this to get early access to anything. If they see the value in having me beta test, by all means they're welcome to say so and I'm sure I'd oblige. If not, no big deal to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Or while depending on beta software to drive the car, he went down a cliff, unexpectedly... :crying:

That would mean I wasn't doing a very good job testing now wouldn't it?

 

[bonnie]

I have expressed my opinions to many at Tesla, including notes and phone conversations with some who could be considered upper management. (I've been asked to keep details of those conversations to myself.) As for the EAP, I have no expectation of being added to that program at this point, and I've not asked about this specifically.

As mentioned in the first post of this thread people at Tesla have recommended me for the program several times (multiple Model S owner, far above average miles driven, technical background, etc) but I've not heard anything along those lines other than that I've been recommended.

It seems like it would make some sense from their perspective for me to test the software for them on my long trips. Thousands of miles of road that they may or may not have any autopilot data on already. Some supercharger routes, some not. Would seem like a win-win for both of us. Plus they get the added bonus of me having to keep quiet about it under NDA. lol.

But I really don't expect that to happen, and I'm not going to push them to make such an offer. It's not my intention behind any of this to get early access to anything. If they see the value in having me beta test, by all means they're welcome to say so and I'm sure I'd oblige. If not, no big deal to me.

I don't think it's too mysterious as to why the request didn't go any further. Not judging - just pointing out the obvious that statements suggesting that you might decide to bring a lawsuit if certain conditions aren't met, could very well torpedo any hopes of becoming a tester for them. Everyone has that right obviously - but I personally wouldn't ask someone to test and give them early access under the current scenario. And they obviously have the right to pick testers who they don't believe may be in an adversarial position at some point.

Essentially, if the car doesn't do a main thing I purchased it for (autopilot for my thousands of miles of summer driving), then, as mentioned previously, I'll most likely consider legal recourse. This is definitely something in the realm of a class action case if pursued, and I'm not against that if needed to press this further at that time.

 

[brianman]

Good point, bonnie.

 

[NigelM]

Given that Elon himself apparently isn't happy yet with the performance of the full AP, I'd surmise that Tesla hasn't pushed anything out to the Beta group. It's one thing to try out new nav software or a new UI but there's a much higher liability involved were Tesla to ask customers to test full AP for them when the company itself isn't happy yet..

 

[wk057]

I don't think it's too mysterious as to why the request didn't go any further. Not judging - just pointing out the obvious that statements suggesting that you might decide to bring a lawsuit if certain conditions aren't met, could very well torpedo any hopes of becoming a tester for them. Everyone has that right obviously - but I personally wouldn't ask someone to test and give them early access under the current scenario. And they obviously have the right to pick testers who they don't believe may be in an adversarial position at some point.

I would tend to agree, hence the not expecting anything.

 

[Canuck]

Given that Elon himself apparently isn't happy yet with the performance of the full AP, I'd surmise that Tesla hasn't pushed anything out to the Beta group. It's one thing to try out new nav software or a new UI but there's a much higher liability involved were Tesla to ask customers to test full AP for them.

I wonder if the Beta group must sign waivers in addition to a NDA. I know the waiver would not apply to a third party involved in an accident, so it doesn't reduce Tesla's risk by much, but it would be interesting to know if that's part of the requirement to be in the Beta group.

 

[wk057]

I feel it's worth pointing out that there are many who have read my posts on this thread who feel as strongly or even more so about this situation who have contacted me privately expressing their support. I've had some conversations outside of the forum via email and the like with several of them. Most essentially said they wouldn't dare post anything publicly since they know the incessant defenders would spin it against them as many have with my posts. I respect that position and don't want anyone posting anything publicly they don't feel comfortable posting, in support of my views or otherwise, for whatever reason.

Given that, though, there are a lot of people who are *way* more PO'd than I am about this situation.

I feel a particular instance is worth writing about (with permission from the other party).

This morning, I had a very pleasant phone conversation with an older gentleman who was clearly deceived by Tesla's autopilot marketing exactly as I had figured people would be (by making it intentionally unclear which features are actually available today). He got in touch with me directly via email, after seeing this thread and having seen some articles elsewhere on my solar project, with a note briefly expressing his thoughts on this issue (and congratulations on the solar setup). After a few emails back and forth we exchanged phone numbers and planned a conversation for this morning.

He ordered the car believing it did what was described on the website and in the videos all over the internet. No one at Tesla dissuaded him of this belief even after many questions to store reps and other employees along the way. The vehicle he test drove simply "was not equipped with autopilot" so those features couldn't be demonstrated at the time. He is not a member of any Tesla forums or anything (now or prior to his purchase), and doesn't have any reason to be. Upon delivery he inspected the car for damage and such and signed the delivery paperwork since everything seemed to be in order. Afterwards, when he was going over features with his DS, like almost all of us all did when we got our cars, the orientation was over and there was no mention of how to use the self-parking feature (something he specifically wanted as he had it in his previous vehicle). This is when the autopilot-isn't-actually-available-yet bomb was finally dropped on him. The feature he wanted most and paid for didn't actually exist yet! He was completely floored. This was the first mention anyone had made to him that the features didn't actually work yet. Up until then all conversations regarded autopilot features were in present tense, much like Elon's own presentation. He'd already signed for the car and submitted his payment in the form of a cashier's check. None of his paperwork stated that these features were not yet available and no "we-own" was given, yet the car was now technically his and it didn't do what it was supposed to do (re: autopilot). He actually tried to refuse delivery based on this, but Tesla staff persuaded him not to (especially since they already had him by the ****s having already signed for the car).

Long story short he's had the car nearly a month now and is pretty bitter about this. It's likely cost Tesla at least a few other sales since this gentleman was essentially singing Tesla's praise to others after his test drive and order placement, others who were pretty interested and even did some test drives as well. When his tune changed after delivery those folks stopped looking. Tesla has basically refused to work with him on this any further aside from telling him to wait until the software is done and delivered with no time frame given.

He's been gathering up notes and is strongly considering legal action on the matter. Particularly, his attorney has suggested that his car is likely a lemon in his jurisdiction. "Can the car park itself? No? OK, fix it. Oh, you can't fix it? Then it's a lemon." This is actually a decent legal angle I personally hadn't even considered.

So, I think the percentage of people willing to put up with this type of thing from Tesla in the real world is dropping. If as basically a random investor and enthusiast on the internet I've been contacted by folks and am able to tally up a decent amount of people who are at their tipping point with this then on the whole I'm more than certain that number is actually much higher.

Tesla is really going to need to get their act together.

 

[brianman]

Thanks for sharing this experience, wk057.

 

[Cyclone]

Meanwhile, knowing my own personality would be irked by the continued lack of AP being available to the general public Model S vehicles, I am even more happy that I decide to get a CPO and skip AP 1.0. Hopefully when I am around for another Model S, AP 2.0 or 3.0 will be out. That said, I do envy you all that at least have TACC. I enjoy it (for the most part) when I have loaners. From one randon internet poster to the rest, I truly hope that the remainder of AP gets released swiftly. I also feel hurt that you all have to wait, especially given it is not a transparent conversation up front (on the "sales floor") of "we have plans for X, Y, and Z that your car will be able to do someday", it is "X, Y, and Z are available* (w/ a future software update soon)". The lack of transparency (without voicing an opinion on intent) is what troubles me more thank anything else and is something I admire in some companies (not necessarily car companies) b/c while I do not need to be in the middle of the details, I like being in the loop of progress of a goal - even when the being in the loop is simply being told "we hit another hurdle and we cannot make it happen this month".

 

[tezzla]

... He's been gathering up notes and is strongly considering legal action on the matter. Particularly, his attorney has suggested that his car is likely a lemon in his jurisdiction. "Can the car park itself? No? OK, fix it. Oh, you can't fix it? Then it's a lemon." This is actually a decent legal angle I personally hadn't even considered....

Well, I'm 100% with you. There is a big problem in this forum in that, most of these people who don't agree with us: Don't have any skin in the game. They are mostly just Monday morning/armchair quarterbacks pumping out lame excuse after lame excuse.

They go apeshit when the nav is wrong, or no POIs (because they have skin in that game).

I just went thru the AutoPilot section again on the Tesla website; NO mention of features that are there or not (with the exception of a couple, not even TACC is mentioned as active).

 

[NigelM]

I feel it's worth pointing out that there are many who have read my posts on this thread who feel as strongly or even more so about this situation...

I'll say up front that I have a classic Sig Model S and I'm very happy with it, so I don't have AP hardware. That said, I do sympathize with your point of view, it's gotta be frustrating for all of you waiting on a feature you feel you already paid for. If the software isn't ready, it isn't ready and no company is going to release something with potential safety implications if they're not happy with it themselves. This is clearly a feature that Tesla intends to deliver and there's the rub; a lawsuit or Lemon claim might/would get someone their money back but then sooner or later the firmware will be released and the features enabled (sod's law, it'll probably be the day after some litigant gets their refund check). All you can really do is keep the pressure on and wait it out.