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Battery Day expectations

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I'm expecting a major advance in battery tech. I don't see how the Cybertruck works without it.
Serious advances in production capacity and $/kWh to let the CT compete with ICE trucks; and enough incremental increase in battery longevity to support the Tesla Semi.

Tesla has been battery production constrained for a long time. Opening that bottleneck would be awesome, since it would unleash Tesla Energy in addition to upcoming Tesla vehicles.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tesla use its cash to build out GF1 and start churning out Tera-level battery factories with their Maxwell tech.
 
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And the Batteries aren't the only thing that makes a 2021+ Model 3 a 2021+ Model 3 I fail to see what the point is in relation to the argument I was responding to. The original ZR1 argument was against retrofitting current Model 3's with potential post Battery day batteries. "What happens when you buy a corvette stingray, but then you want the performance of a corvette ZR1 two years later?" well what happens is you upgrade the components in your old Corvette which you can 100% do. With Chevy's blessing, support and encouragement I might add

The point is there's no limitations on what you can do with a Tesla either. You just have to have the right know-how and the will to do it. you change over your Corvette you've ruined any type of warranty that you had left on it, you change over a Tesla you've ruined any kind of warranty you've had left over it. I think the bigger point of the picture is just because you don't know how to upgrade a Tesla, doesn't mean it is impossible.
 
Serious advances in production capacity and $/kWh.

Tesla has been battery production constrained for a long time. Opening that bottleneck would be awesome, since it would unleash Tesla Energy in addition to upcoming Tesla vehicles.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tesla use its cash to build out GF1 and start churning out Tera-level battery factories with their Maxwell tech.
Yes, and one would think the stock price is indicative of Tesla further articulating the path towards becoming an energy storage/arbitrage company, commoditizing the IoT. For those that are already closely following Tesla’s march towards multi-industry disruption, we may be disappointed. But I’ll forget about that if they just release details about a new S.
 
You're confusing Elon Musk's statements with reality. A simpler explanation is that they can't sell it and be profitable.

I'm expecting a lot of promises and no delivery.

Heh, sick but fair burn on Musk. I basically said the same thing in my local group: Model Y SR was killed because of their struggle with profits on the 3 SR, not because the range is unacceptable.

I'm not talking about "battery swapping" (capability to replace whole battery pack in minutes) - something Tesla discontinued years ago. This is a dead end except for fleet of cars/trucks. They can replace battery modules with reasonable complexity and designed Model 3/Y packs to allow that (yes, not trivial like battery swap, but still well within standard maintenance procedure you can perform once in 10 years or so).

I was always amazed by the logic "why would Tesla do that? They can just make new cars." Of course they can. But that, from my personal prospective, makes the product I already own inferior to the one with upgrade options. So either Tesla do that or someone else will and Tesla will loose to this competitor. But I think Tesla is smarter than that and will choose to be a leader and provide some upgrade options, as it will make the product better. You can attempt to force people to buy new car when they just want to upgrade the battery and happy with the rest of the car, in that case you are not only going against the environment, but also against the market and what consumers want.

Regarding the "supply constrained" argument. Well, Tesla is ramping up capacity, so that means they will eventually be demand constrained, and I don't think we will have to want more than 5 years for that. Why would they want to wait for the last moment? You can promise something now (which you can practically implement), you can even be upfront and say "we need all the batteries for new cars for NOW", but we will eventually produce enough and allow existing owners to enjoy their cars for a very long time if they choose to. This will actually raise demand for Teslas NOW given that people will know they will be able to upgrade and retain their value even better.

Tesla? Being a leader on reasonable repair? I don't normally like to absurdly point out things like this, but we aren't talking about the same company. In practice, they're always against repair. When it comes down to it, the actual total cost to owners will make module swapping effectively pointless. The industry as a whole doesn't really do in-place repair anymore: replacement with refurbished assemblies is cheaper, faster, and still allows for repair to actually occur (it's just that your old assembly is refurbished and given/sold to someone else). For this reason I can see Tesla offering refurbished packs, but not necessarily a guts swap on your own pack. This might not be the "good ol' days" of fixes at your local mechanic, but the fixes do still occur. In the refurbished units that are bought instead.

Tesla is ramping up capacity because they must to accomplish their long-term goals (and no doubt, more details about this ramp-up will be part of battery day). Tesla isn't just the consumer vehicles they have now: publicly coming up, you've got Semi (huge capacity per vehicle), Cybertruck (relatively large capacity per vehicle, but also a mass consumer market target), more home supply (e.g. Powerwall), way more grid installations (e.g. Megapacks, huge amount of battery storage), and this list will only grow.

It looks like they will be constrained on battery supply for even a decade more despite trying to build out so much of their own manufacturing capacity. They have so many plans to use all that supply, only a small fraction of which are being built today. This is the type of thing battery day should really be clearing up, and it probably will to some extent.
 
The point is there's no limitations on what you can do with a Tesla either. You just have to have the right know-how and the will to do it. you change over your Corvette you've ruined any type of warranty that you had left on it, you change over a Tesla you've ruined any kind of warranty you've had left over it. I think the bigger point of the picture is just because you don't know how to upgrade a Tesla, doesn't mean it is impossible.


Ehhh no on the warranty thing. That's where the difference is. If you use genuine Chevy parts for example and have the work done at a licensed dealership it will not and cannot void the warranty. Whereas Tesla has outright blocked and refused swapping parts in software in many cases
 
Maybe it is 100 extra miles, who knows. But my main point is to change battery when original one is too degraded and add, say, extra 10 years of life to your car. It may very well be worth 5-7k.

Does not make sense for Tesla to offer "up-gradable" battery.

Think about it, a 10 year old EV is still worth something on the used market.
Solution is to sell it to someone who would be OK with the remaining range and buy a new/used replacement EV with acceptable range.

The market for used Tesla cars is particularly strong, much stronger than any other EV, mostly because Tesla has kept the software/firmware up to date, so a used car can still operate almost as good as a new one. We bought our Tesla S used and it still feels like a new Tesla, and people who sit in it cannot tell it's nearly 8 years old, the infotainment is typically better than brand new 2020 cars.
 
Does not make sense for Tesla to offer "up-gradable" battery.
I certainly agree with your conclusion but not because the car still has value.

Tesla knows that by the time they factor in the labor and costs of a tiny volume enterprise the battery is too expensive to be an attractive consumer item.

The LEAF owing population with degraded batteries is running into this. Nissan has priced a replacement battery at ~ $8,000 installed, but the car is worth ~ $3,000. Not surprisingly only a handful of people have bought the replacement. Lest anyone think that the Tesla replacement battery would also cost $8,000, they should remember that the Nissan pack is a whopping 24 kWh.

Yeah...
 
- I foresee them possibly having finally reached the inflection point of $100/kWh to reach parity with ICE and discussing this in relation to making their cars more affordable, then possibly mention of the model 2 in the works as a base example of a sub 30k (maybe 20k?) affordability target.
- Car building method updates (single stamping, etc)
- I think battery improvements will be two-fold. One with modest improvements to their current batteries and available now/soon, and then second will be more significant improvements using their battery breakthrough's and expectations of when that will be mass production in the future, all tied in to them producing the cells themselves as well in the future *at some date in the next year*.
- Plaid powertrain reveal
- Roadster, Semi and Cybertruck updates
- V4 superchargers
- other technological improvements and maybe how it all ties in to their solar power ecosystem
 
Megachargers I assume will be for Semi. For CT, why would it require changes for Supercharging?

It doesn't need changes for Cybertruck, but I'm guessing they'll be something huge like 200kWh for the tri-motor. Even if V3 can do 250kW peak, I don't know if they were designed to sustain that for as long as a 200kWh pack could draw it, and it would certainly be slower overall (in time) than charging any other model.

It's also possible they pull a Porsche move and make the Cybertruck an 800V pack instead of 400V, which I'm pretty sure would require different chargers altogether. That's the fun thing about speculation!
 
It sounds like we may see a major announcement regarding 12V battery reliability (which has historically been the Achilles heel of Tesla's battery management tech).
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@MagnusMako, they just released V3 supercharger. Why would they need V4? Seems a bit premature.

I'm kinda curious about how the cybertruck would charge on v3 charger myself. From what I can tell a v3 pedestal is only rated at 175kW continuous which is likely fine for current vehicles unable to stay much over that for very long but I have to assume the cybertruck would be able to pull 250kW for quite a while, especially the tri motor version.
 
Here's my prioritized list starting with most likely.

1. LFP and million miles life cycle
2. Watts/kg chart on energy density
3. $/kWh chart at the pack level
4. Discharge/Charge rate graph
5. Updated batteries and pack for Plaid model S and Nurburgring domination
6. Discuss dry electrodes and how it moves the charts
7. Discuss cell manufacturing automation and how to make a terrawatt of batteries in 2025
8. Discuss closed loop battery cell and pack recycling
9. Discuss BMS, inverter and motor efficiencies chart
10. Discuss thermal management of entire drivetrain
 
I would be interested getting addition information regarding the Semi charging plug and Semi Superchargers Stalls power and locations?
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The new V3 Superchargers use a 1 MW AC/DC converter connected to 4 stalls.
I wonder if each Semi Superchargers Stalls will have each their own 1 MV AC/DC converter?

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