Battery Replacement Warranty Obligation

[Roger S]

Has anyone challenged Tesla in court in California iunder Civil Code, Chapter 3 Deceptive Practices, Section (1) Passing off goods or services as those of another.

Specfically, this applies to the 2014 Tesla Model S Basic Warranty for battery replacement within 8 years and unlimited miles and the use of a 'remanufactured' battery that clearly does not perform to the same expected level of the original battery. My arguement is that this section should protect consumers from having a clearly inferior battery product passed off as a warranty part replacement.

I am looking to establish evidence for my case in which the battery was replaced under warranty at 80 k miles and 7 years, and the replacement under warranty has now failed after only 18 months and 13k miles. Tesla has refused to accept the battery as defective and required me to replace the battery at my cost.

Are there other statues, laws. or consumer protection mandates that require at least an equivalent part be used when a replacement is guaranteed under warranty.

Thank you!

 

[Roger S]

Yes, and I link the appropriate law earlier:

This response was directed at warranty coverage of in-warranty repairs.

Unless I am mistaken every single person in this community was enticed to buy a car based on the manufacturers warranty covering the battery. It is not a questioin of new, remanufactured, or otherwise... every type of manufacturer, automotive inlcuded must comply with consumer protection laws for warrantied parts.

 

[cbdream99]

Thanks. I am well aware of Tesla's current warranty agreements. My question speaks to the California Code of Regulations, specifically the Bureau of Automative Repair and their position on False or Misleading Statements covering the obligations for a motor vehicle part or component or service. For those of us who live in California, it is this Act that governs the nature, extent, duration, terms or cost of a guarantee of a motor vehicle part. Again, thanks for the information however I am simply verifying if anyone in this community has challenged Tesla's battery replacement warranty obligation?

Also I understand it is probably a very small proportion of owners who had a battery replacement at the end of their warranty, and had an immediate or secondary failure shortly after the warranty expired. The Tesla Service Center was extremely supportive and called my battery failure 'highly unusual'. Unfortunately, after several attempts to receive approval for a goodwill replacement it was decliend by the manufacturer. Seeking anyone who experienced a similar defective part replacement, and would like to join me in the pending court action.

You will have to prove that Tesla is knowingly about the defect of your replaced battery when they first replaced your battery within the warranty period, what are the chances of you succeeding in that? In the past cases against manufacturers using this claim usually failed otherwise manufacturer has to replace and guaranteed parts for life. You can research any past successes in similar cases before using this type of argument and also the cost of the lawyers ...

 

[mongo]

Unless I am mistaken every single person in this community was enticed to buy a car based on the manufacturers warranty covering the battery. It is not a questioin of new, remanufactured, or otherwise... every type of manufacturer, automotive inlcuded must comply with consumer protection laws for warrantied parts.

Correct, and I linked to the California code regarding

Chapter 3 Deceptive Practices Section (1)

Which you referenced and it does not seem applicable to your situation.
(1) relates to a third party selling something and claiming it was made by Tesla. Passing off - Wikipedia

 

[Rocky_H]

It is my understanding that the laws protect consumers from being given a lessor part for a warranty claim. So 13k range on a battery pack does not seem like for like in any defintion.

Ah. That is the leap you are making that is not supported by evidence. You could have a brand new toaster that fails in the first couple of months you had it. Things can happen. Things can be defective. Does that mean it was not new? Does that mean it was a "lessor part" than all of the other toasters that didn't happen to have an early failure?

There have been plenty of threads here on this forum of people with actual brand new cars that did have some kind of unexpected failure of actual brand new batteries. It happens sometimes. And everyone it actually happens to is angry and upset and suspicious, as you are. But manufacturing happens.

 

[MP3Mike]

hank you. It is my understanding that the laws protect consumers from being given a lessor part for a warranty claim. So 13k range on a battery pack does not seem like for like in any defintion.

How are you going to try to prove that they didn't meet their obligations? Just because a replacement pack only lasted 13k miles? That is meaningless.

Would you have rather received a pack that only lasted ~500 miles? (Like some people that had their pack fail shortly after taking delivery of a brand new vehicle.)

Things fail, that is what warranties are for. And I've not ever heard that a warranty needs to bring something back to brand new status/shape. (And the Tesla warranty makes it very clear that they don't attempt to do that, only that the replacement pack should perform similarly, or better, than the pack you had just prior to the failure.)

 

[ucmndd]

Unless I am mistaken every single person in this community was enticed to buy a car based on the manufacturers warranty covering the battery.

Yup. And you received the warranty coverage that you agreed to at the time of purchase.

You MAY have had some potential for a claim or goodwill action if the warranty replacement failed in 18 days. 18 MONTHS? Not a chance.

Best of luck on your hopeless pursuit - do keep us updated.

 

[russelltim2020]

Has anyone challenged Tesla in court in California iunder Civil Code, Chapter 3 Deceptive Practices, Section (1) Passing off goods or services as those of another.

Specfically, this applies to the 2014 Tesla Model S Basic Warranty for battery replacement within 8 years and unlimited miles and the use of a 'remanufactured' battery that clearly does not perform to the same expected level of the original battery. My arguement is that this section should protect consumers from having a clearly inferior battery product passed off as a warranty part replacement.

I am looking to establish evidence for my case in which the battery was replaced under warranty at 80 k miles and 7 years, and the replacement under warranty has now failed after only 18 months and 13k miles. Tesla has refused to accept the battery as defective and required me to replace the battery at my cost.

Are there other statues, laws. or consumer protection mandates that require at least an equivalent part be used when a replacement is guaranteed under warranty.

Thank you!

I thought you got a 4 yr or 80k km warranty with the new refurb pack? Otherwise, why would anyone pay an additional 20k for one?

 

[NewbyMaybe]

They didn't pay for it because of the warranty.

 

[jerseygirl18]

i'm reading all the comments about older/refurbished batt failures...and i wondering...should we have a more realistic range on age & mileage re: replacement of the CAR?? my X had the Big Batt fail @ 3.5 yrs..i panicked & insisted that we buy from a more reliable manuf. We kept the tesla with its 'new' batt, but also bought a new EV from MB...i have no long expectations for the refurbished batt...i approach the vehicle this way...No long trips, keep as a drive around town car..if it lasts to 60K that's when i always got rid of my ICEs...we currently have 37K..the advise about buying new from other respondents is sound advise

 

[russelltim2020]

Exactly this, yes.

The Tesla battery warranty is clear. Replacement under warranty does not extend the terms of the original warranty in any way.

They owed you an 8 year unlimited mile battery warranty, which it appears you received. The fact the battery was replaced once under said warranty, be it one day in or 7 years and 364 days in, is inconsequential.

So therfor anything out of warranty is a ticking time bomb that should be avoided? So much for the sustainable future. There needs to be reasonably priced options to keep these cars on the road

 

[Krash]

…There needs to be reasonably priced options to keep these cars on the road

Tesla will replace them for you, but it might not meet most’s definition of “reasonably priced”. Wk057 has third party monitoring and battery swap options. Not for 3/Y cars yet, but owner Jason Hughes stated they will for those too once more are out of warranty.

 

[NV Ray]

Tesla will replace them for you, but it might not meet most’s definition of “reasonably priced”. Wk057 has third party monitoring and battery swap options. Not for 3/Y cars yet, but owner Jason Hughes stated they will for those too once more are out of warranty.

You're right. Other USA 3rd party vendors of which I'm aware are @Recell and Gruber Motors. Donut Auto Parts also sells packs from salvage cars if folks are inclined to DIY swaps.

 

[Krash]

I hadn’t seen Donut before. Good find.

 

[NV Ray]

You're right. Other USA 3rd party vendors of which I'm aware are @Recell and Gruber Motors. Donut Auto Parts also sells packs from salvage cars if folks are inclined to DIY swaps.

@racevpr

 

[NV Ray]

I hadn’t seen Donut before. Good find.

Suspect there are myriad other salvage yard businesses out there. Donut is only one I've personally talked with and only one in which I've talked to Tesla owner @JeffreyHowell that has used Donut to do DIY pack swap.

 

[Krash]

…Tesla owner @JeffreyHowell … has used Donut to do DIY pack swap.

That deserves its own thread.

 

[NV Ray]

That deserves its own thread.

Starting with post #8 Can I swap HV packs between my cars with the subscription version of Toolbox?

 

[JeffreyHowell]

Yes

Suspect there are myriad other salvage yard businesses out there. Donut is only one I've personally talked with and only one in which I've talked to Tesla owner @JeffreyHowell that has used Donut to do DIY pack swap.

Yes, I did a DIY battery swap. It was a very good experience and Donut treated me very well!

@racevpr[/USER
[/QUOTE]

 

[vanwho]

The only grounds are when the refurbished replacement pack does not have the same capacity as the failed pack at time of failure, as mentioned previously, since that is part of the original warranty terms.

I have only read of 1 person successfully engaging their service center to have a poor-range refurbished pack replaced again, due to failing to meet that warranty term.

I am also currently in the process. For the last 6 months. At 210k km, 85 pack failed, with 73.7kwh nominal, Mar. 2015 battery date, only 6k kwh DC charging, 370km range @ 100%. The refurbed battery installed is from Jan 2015, has over 25k kwh DC charging (total kwh charged is higher - higher total miles), and most importantly, came with just 71.1kwh nominal readings, took months of charging below 10% to above 90%, triggering rebalancing, to get it to charge to 100%. Immediately complained after initial replacement pickup and gave pictures new and old of range, scanmytesla output, etc., lots of runaround and told to wait, it has maxed to 72.6kwh nomina since.

This has been ongoing for about 6 months, with the rather new service center also talking to Tesla service mothership. It is in service now, finally, past warranty date but the service ticket has been open for so long, it still applies. The service is still not to replace the pack, but investigate it further, whatever that means. Remote diagnostics should show current battery readings, and old pictures around time of failure were what was requested, and what sufficed for the other person that had this issue a couple of years ago on the forums.

We'll see what happens, still hoping for the best. The service center folks are nice and trying, but just seems like they're not aware of deep down Tesla service articles they can use to replace the insufficient refurbished pack, or Tesla mothership is telling them do everything not to, not sure.

But that is the only refurbished pack situation that has any standing in the warranty. And they can either replace it with a better remanufactured battery, or really, holding out hope for a new pack as so many have received. It would not have any additional warranty time left on it, though, and that is normal for any warranty anywhere - replacement just has warranty for remainder of original warranty term.

 

[Lasttoy]

Let's go back a few years. Our original 85 packs had 265 mile range. Then Tesla throttled them back to 225 to ease them out of warranty. Jump forward to pack replacement under warranty. I got refurbished pack under warranty. I asked what replacement warranty was? ""Till the 8 years are up on the car"". Then I asked why the range was set to the ""throttled back range""? And not original range? Reply. "new range per company policy"".
Several years later I was at SC. They said pack was bad, and motor was bad. handed me 20,000 invoice. I said no thank you. Oh, my pack is still working just fine. I asked about warranty if I bought the pack. He said "" we don't make 85 packs anymore. So u get a refurbished pack "". Four year, 50000 mile warranty on refurbished pack "".
I then asked if I buy a NEW 90 or 100 pack. They don't fit in your car.
Us folks with antique cars are in a bad position now. It seems to me we have shops that do pack refurbishing and sell at a much cheaper price. We just have to wait and pray these shops flourish and are successful to the point they are and can handle all the Old cars that will need packs.
My car has 216k miles. Pack has 50k .