Battery Swapping/Rental for the Model S

[mknox]

if you buy power for resale, you are an electric distribution company (=utility) in many states. So far, though, regulators in every state with such restrictions have waived the rule for EVSEs.

That's true here in Ontario, Canada as well. A few years ago, third-parties wanted to start individually metering and billing apartments in what had been bulk metered buildings. These entities had to be licenced by the regulator (Ontario Energy Board) to do this.

Policies and regulations just need to catch up with charging scenarios. I've seen for-pay cell phone chargers at the airport, and I doubt those kiosks are licenced electricity distributors :smile:

 

[Greg]

An Idea That May Get Rid of Range Anxiety

One of the big drawbacks of having an electric car is the range before it needs to be recharged. Even though the Model S can go 300 miles (265 per the EPA) before needing a recharge people still have hesitation because a recharge takes time. They are thinking of the big road trip they take anywhere from once every other year to perhaps a few times a year. I realize this is not a very rational fear to have since 99% of their daily driving could easily be handled by the 40 or 60 KWH battery, but it is still there. Has Tesla ever thought of having an extra battery pack that you can rent to increase your battery range. The idea is that this extra battery pack could be secured under the car out of sight or perhaps in the trunk and/or frunk. When you are ready to take that trip you go to your friendly Tesla service center to pick up your battery pack that you previously reserved, they install it in 10-30 minutes and off you go. When you are done with the trip you go back to the service center to for it's removal.

Does anyone know if something like this is even technically possible? Two challenges I can think of are: 1) can the battery pack and computer system can handle extra batteries being added then removed from the car and 2) weight distribution issues that would affect handling.

This is just an idea I thought about the other day!

 

[TEG]

I have heard ideas like that proposed before. I am sure that Tesla has at least considered something like that, but seem to have chosen the "Supercharger" network as the solution.

People talked about buying a 160 mile range model, and then renting a 300 mile range pack when they want to go on a longer drive. I don't think Tesla plans to offer that.
There is also the whole "pack swap" idea where you drive to a depot and quickly trade your depleted pack for a full one. Tesla doesn't seem to be offering that service either even though they mentioned that some parts of the car were designed with something like that in mind.

 

[Adm]

There is one humongous reason why Tesla didn´t do this: It´s a HORRIBLE business idea. Imagine how many people who now get a 85kWh battery would choose to take a smaller battery resulting in less revenue. Renting out batteries for an occasional road trip will not make up for that.

 

[mknox]

I had once thought that a small ICE-powered genset trailer for road trips would be a good idea. Then I realized that I may take one or two long road trips a year, and the cost and storage hassle (not to mention ICE maintenance) of this would be far more than just flying and renting a car or taking another ICE-powered car on those occasions.

 

[RDoc]

According to Tesla it won't be possible to replace the car's battery with a different sized one, so that would preclude renting a larger battery for a trip.

 

[ElSupreme]

According to Tesla it won't be possible to replace the car's battery with a different sized one, so that would preclude renting a larger battery for a trip.

They never said it isn't possible. Just they wont do it. Big difference.

 

[Doug_G]

I had once thought that a small ICE-powered genset trailer for road trips would be a good idea. Then I realized that I may take one or two long road trips a year, and the cost and storage hassle (not to mention ICE maintenance) of this would be far more than just flying and renting a car or taking another ICE-powered car on those occasions.

I don't have an ICE car in my garage. If I need an ICE car for a particular road trip then I can rent one. Given that this might happen once a year it will be far more economical to just rent it.

 

[JRP3]

Has Tesla ever thought of having an extra battery pack that you can rent to increase your battery range. The idea is that this extra battery pack could be secured under the car out of sight or perhaps in the trunk and/or frunk. When you are ready to take that trip you go to your friendly Tesla service center to pick up your battery pack that you previously reserved, they install it in 10-30 minutes and off you go. When you are done with the trip you go back to the service center to for it's removal.

You cant add a large enough secondary battery pack to the car to make a reasonable difference without adding significant weight, and frankly there is no place to put it. An add on pack that would be towed on a trailer would be more practical, or a genset trailer. Or just take a different vehicle.

 

[Todd Burch]

You cant add a large enough secondary battery pack to the car to make a reasonable difference without adding significant weight, and frankly there is no place to put it. An add on pack that would be towed on a trailer would be more practical, or a genset trailer. Or just take a different vehicle.

Or instead of driving to a Tesla service center and waiting 10-30 minutes for the install, just use a Supercharger.

 

[DavidWexler]

In an interview I once heard Elon say that the S battery can be swapped out in one minute. Tesla's version of Better Place may be coming some day. I won't be surprised.

 

[yobigd20]

In an interview I once heard Elon say that the S battery can be swapped out in one minute. Tesla's version of Better Place may be coming some day. I won't be surprised.

This wouldn't surprise me. It's probably slightly exaggerated. It might take one minute to swap out the packs after thes dissassembled. Probably more likely an hour to get to it, swap it out, then put it back together. The funny thing is that I know they said you can't upgrade from 40 to 60 etc, but their facts page still hints otherwise. 'While technically possible to upgrade to a larger battery, we recommend configuring your Model S with the battery that meets both your present and future needs.' http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts

 

[JRP3]

Better Place is turning out to be big failure, and with Tesla's investment in Superchargers, I wouldn't expect to see Tesla battery swapping. I'm also fairly sure it will take much more than one minute to swap a Model S pack.

 

[mknox]

I'm also fairly sure it will take much more than one minute to swap a Model S pack.

I would think so as well. It's not like changing out the batteries in your TV remote... there are liquid cooling connections as well as electrical to consider.

 

[jerry33]

In an interview I once heard Elon say that the S battery can be swapped out in one minute. Tesla's version of Better Place may be coming some day. I won't be surprised.

That was quite a while ago. More recent interviews say under five minutes [ed. under ideal conditions]. My thought is that battery swapping is a very poor business plan due to the inventory and labour costs. It might work for local fleet use (e.g. taxis) where a company has their own facility to do the swap.

 

[brianman]

In an interview I once heard Elon say that the S battery can be swapped out in one minute. Tesla's version of Better Place may be coming some day. I won't be surprised.

Worth a listen.
Stanford Seminar - Dave Duff, Tesla Motors

have demonstrated a quick swap .... with 4 guys ... and they can swap a pack in under 10 minutes

 

[Blurry_Eyed]

Tesla released their Annual 10-K report - (If anyone wants to read it, you can get it here: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/1748600199x6426338xS1193125-13-96241/1318605/1193125-13-96241.pdf).

This little tidbit about battery swapping was under the section about factors that might influence the adoption of electric vehicles. So the context is about different things that might help or impede the public perception of wanting to buy an electric car. It's on page 28 of the document:

'our capability to rapidly swap out the Model S battery pack and the development of specialized public facilities to perform such
swapping, which do not currently exist but which we may introduce sometime in 2013'

The 'we may introduce...' language gives Tesla a broad swath of latitude here, but at least they allude to the possibility of introducing a battery swap option in 2013.

 

[dsm363]

Tesla released their Annual 10-K report - (If anyone wants to read it, you can get it here: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/1748600199x6426338xS1193125-13-96241/1318605/1193125-13-96241.pdf).

This little tidbit about battery swapping was under the section about factors that might influence the adoption of electric vehicles. So the context is about different things that might help or impede the public perception of wanting to buy an electric car. It's on page 28 of the document:

'our capability to rapidly swap out the Model S battery pack and the development of specialized public facilities to perform such
swapping, which do not currently exist but which we may introduce sometime in 2013'

The 'we may introduce...' language gives Tesla a broad swath of latitude here, but at least they allude to the possibility of introducing a battery swap option in 2013.

I could see them offering this in very few areas (California basically) where you would drop off your personal pack and rent one then come back and pick up your old pack. I think they need to focus on the nationwide Supercharging network first.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla released their Annual 10-K report - (If anyone wants to read it, you can get it here: http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...1193125-13-96241/1318605/1193125-13-96241.pdf).

This little tidbit about battery swapping was under the section about factors that might influence the adoption of electric vehicles. So the context is about different things that might help or impede the public perception of wanting to buy an electric car. It's on page 28 of the document:

'our capability to rapidly swap out the Model S battery pack and the development of specialized public facilities to perform such
swapping, which do not currently exist but which we may introduce sometime in 2013'

The 'we may introduce...' language gives Tesla a broad swath of latitude here, but at least they allude to the possibility of introducing a battery swap option in 2013.

I think the only reason they may do it is they can get extra CARB ZEV credits (7 credits vs 4 credits right now for 60kWh and 85kWh packs) for the car if they build even one battery swap station in California. A battery swap would qualify the car for the fast fueling requirement (285 miles of UDDS range in 15 minutes).

Battery swapping still has too many problems in the economics side. The only thing that might work is a rental scheme, but even that might discourage people from buying a larger battery and it may not make economic sense for Tesla for that reason.

 

[JRP3]

With more and more EV's being built aren't ZEV credits going to drop in value? Is the cost of a functioning swap station and a stack of batteries going to be worth it?