Cadillac ELR (Converj)

[Jaff]

+1, same here Todd...with the S & the Roadster, you (can) drive according to the days needs...lower kms needed for the day = have some fun (more fun than a volt / cadillac elr / fisker on electric power)...longer range needed, drive & plan accordingly...

Really? In my 85 I easily get that much practical range in standard mode, using the heat. I consistently exceed the EPA's rated range on my 40 mile drive to work, which consists of 15 miles of Interstate driving at 70 MPH and the rest a mix of rural/city driving between 40 and 60 MPH. I'm certain that in Range mode I could exceed 265 miles with a similar mix of realistic driving.

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...@ SoCal...the ELR and the Karma are in the same territory?...is GM on the fiscal ropes again? :wink::biggrin:

Again, at $55K, this car is a bargain for the tech and luxury features it offers. It caters to the luxury car buyers who like the idea of going electric but want the freedom of range and the reliability of a proven luxury automaker behind it. The MS, in my opinion, caters to the early adopters and techies who like the tech and are willing to compromise with the issues associated with new tech - all the small things like no cupholders, parking sensors, interior storage, average sound system, pedestrian styling, the need to pre-plan your longer-range trips to accomodate charging stations, etc. For the MS to cross into the ELR or Karma territory, it needs more range and/or faster, easily accessible charging.

 

[qwk]

Really? In my 85 I easily get that much practical range in standard mode, using the heat. I consistently exceed the EPA's rated range on my 40 mile drive to work, which consists of 15 miles of Interstate driving at 70 MPH and the rest a mix of rural/city driving between 40 and 60 MPH. I'm certain that in Range mode I could exceed 265 miles with a similar mix of realistic driving.

Yes, his assesment wasn't really fair because the Volt will not get that range in EV mode when it's very cold out while using the heater. You cannot compare the Model S range in cold weather with the heat on to the Volt in summer weather being driven conservatively.

 

[rolosrevenge]

Everyone talks about this freedom of range, but in the last two years I've had my car (I didn't have a car before that), I've never driven it anywhere that couldn't have been done with a 60 kWh Model S without any special planning. Plus, when you have two little kids, there's no such thing as an impromptu road trip so I'm gonna say that the whole 'needs an ICE' to give you the freedom to go where you want is grossly overstated.

 

[SoCalGuy]

If the 85kWh pack gets you 210mi range, the 40kWh pack has 112mi range. (210/300=0.7 0.7*160=112) (Is that 210mi with a range charge or standard charge?)

The 60kWh car is more efficient than the 85kWh, so if the 40kWh car is equally or even more efficient than the 60kWh car than that number maybe a little bit higher.

That's one approach - my back of the envelope math was 40kwh/85kwh = 0.4706 x 210 = 98.8 miles.

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I don't get the comparison with Model S. The ELR is a 2-seater, which is great as a "toy car", but it's not very practical (which the Model S is). You still need another car for giving people a ride, bringing home your shopping and so forth. They are just two very different beasts - which is good, because people are different and like different stuff.

My opinion: for a "toy car" at that price, since it will anyway use gasoline, I would have wanted more engine power. Or a convertible.

It's actually a 2+2 - 2 doors, but it has four seats.

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+1, same here Todd...with the S & the Roadster, you (can) drive according to the days needs...lower kms needed for the day = have some fun (more fun than a volt / cadillac elr / fisker on electric power)...longer range needed, drive & plan accordingly...




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...@ SoCal...the ELR and the Karma are in the same territory?...is GM on the fiscal ropes again? :wink::biggrin:

Again, at $55K, this car is a bargain for the tech and luxury features it offers. It caters to the luxury car buyers who like the idea of going electric but want the freedom of range and the reliability of a proven luxury automaker behind it. The MS, in my opinion, caters to the early adopters and techies who like the tech and are willing to compromise with the issues associated with new tech - all the small things like no cupholders, parking sensors, interior storage, average sound system, pedestrian styling, the need to pre-plan your longer-range trips to accomodate charging stations, etc. For the MS to cross into the ELR or Karma territory, it needs more range and/or faster, easily accessible charging.

Hah - I think you know what I meant =) But to spell it out, many prospective EV buyers out there do have real range anxiety. I know a couple of folks that have done the SF to LA drive using the supercharger routes and it is not at all convenient. In one instance, there was a road closure off the 5 and it would have meant the S would be literally stuck (thankfully the closure was lifted before the S arrived at the supercharger). And that was a route that Tesla has designed to be as convenient as possible. Imagine all the other routes people like to drive to without having to worry about whether or not they may be stranded. Cars are about freedom - right now, no electric car really offers that same sense or degree of freedom that an ICE/range extended car offers. For me, that was the ultimate deal breaker in getting the S (styling a distant second). That's what I meant by the ELR/Karma territory - those that want 90% of the benefits of an EV and 100% of the freedom of an ICE.

 

[smorgasbord]

I don't think we have official pricing from Cadillac yet. Motor Trend is estimating a base of $60K now: 2014 Cadillac ELR First Look - Motor Trend
, and that's before options (which include adaptive cruise control and Bose sound).

For empty nesters, this could be a great car. Like the Volt, should get you an HOV sticker. While Tesla still wins the "performance without guilt" crowd (which I belong to), the ELR has enough green creds to attract some buyers. The ELR is heavy (4100 lbs), so even with the drivetrain bump I think performance will be only marginally better than the Volt. MT was quoting 8 seconds for 0-60. It doesn't have an air suspension, but the shocks are computer controlled and provide two different settings. The regen paddles should be interesting - might actually be a good solution for car companies to not force people to adapt to high regen, yet let enthusiasts decide when they want higher regen.

Styling wise, I think it's a hit - GM was able to keep the low window glass on the sides. It's not the disappointing concept car to real car styling that became the Volt. Compared to what Audi is putting out, the ELR's interior is clunky and looks dated. But, I suspect their target market actually wants that.

I haven't seen any pictures of the back seat, so I don't know how bad it is. I can tell you, however, the Model S's back seat is only for kids or short people, even with the sunroof - unless you like hitting your head (headrests are too low) and don't mind having your knees up to your shoulders when you sit (floor is too high). If you need a back seat for normal adults, neither car is really suitable (the threads here about Model S as a taxi are laughable). If you're an empty nester, do you really want as big a car as a Model S? I am and I don't, especially since Model S is so small on the inside for passengers.

My bottom line is that if you're a retired non-greenie, this is a car you'd check out. I think quite a few Volt owners will trade up. We'll have to wait to see if it drives too heavy or too mushy and see what GM's quality control is really like, but a good looking, nicely styled car with some green cred and no range anxiety is bound to be a winner, I predict.

 

[dpeilow]

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks for the pictures. Looks like back seat is more than "+2" seating, but still hard to tell about head and leg room there, though.

I've been saying that Model S's rear seats will get fixed as Musk's kids grow up, but now I'm realizing that he'll switch to Model X well before that. Which I think means I'll never own a Model S. And with Gen-III coming in at a lower, it won't have the luxury/range I want.

Now the scary thought it that it might be next decade before Tesla makes another car I'd want to buy. I guess I can still hope for a Mercedes with the Tesla drivetrain. Sigh.

 

[AnOutsider]

Thanks for the pictures. Looks like back seat is more than "+2" seating, but still hard to tell about head and leg room there, though.

I've been saying that Model S's rear seats will get fixed as Musk's kids grow up, but now I'm realizing that he'll switch to Model X well before that. Which I think means I'll never own a Model S. And with Gen-III coming in at a lower, it won't have the luxury/range I want.

Now the scary thought it that it might be next decade before Tesla makes another car I'd want to buy. I guess I can still hope for a Mercedes with the Tesla drivetrain. Sigh.

"fixed"? Meaning the back leg room isn't enough? IF so, how tall are you? My wife is an inch shorter than I am (6'2") and she sits back there with the baby all the time without issue.

 

[SoCalGuy]

"fixed"? Meaning the back leg room isn't enough? IF so, how tall are you? My wife is an inch shorter than I am (6'2") and she sits back there with the baby all the time without issue.

I think this depends on the ratio of upper to lower body rather than outright height.

 

[AnOutsider]

I think this depends on the ratio of upper to lower body rather than outright height.

Mostly legs!

 

[mattjs33]

For those who are wondering who will buy this, never underestimate the capacity of the general public to make odd purchase decisions. People bought Daewoos.

I think this car looks pretty damn sharp. Since we know that the $49,000 Model S isn't gonna happen, the ELR should give the 40kw version (whenever it does hit the market) a pretty good fight, especially considering that will be Tesla's "stripper" model. To be fair though, the size and class of these cars aren't really the same in my eyes, see smorgasbord above.

I do like the idea of the driver-selectable "hold" feature of the Range Extender, allowing choice of when to operate on battery only. As far as I can determine this is Fisker's sole contribution to EV technology.

I also think there may be drivers (I would be one of them) who might like an infinitely variable regen level selector. There might be times when you want to be able to just coast, like on the interstate, instead of being on-off all the time. And there would be other times when you would want it really high, like maybe in stop and go traffic. I can see this being something all EVs have down the road.

 

[dpeilow]

Hold mode on the Ampera is next to useless and I only use it now to activate the ICE for a mile or two to warm the cabin, if I know I am going beyond AER.

The reason is that the car can still dip into the battery when running on ICE to assist with acceleration. It does this even with hold mode on. After a while your held energy is used up. I've found that if you switch on hold with 5 miles EV range left, it often doesn't come back out.

At the other end of the scale if you switch on hold mode early to try to prevent the above, when you come back to EV mode at your destination you often find you've overshot and you have electricity left. Obviously that isn't desirable either.

So I've given up on it. Normally when I am in urban streets at the end of the trip, I'm driving at 30mph or below and mostly on electricity anyway. If and when EV-only low emissions zones are implemented, I'm not quite sure how it would work if people suddenly find they've used more miles than they think.

Pre-2013 NA Volt owners needn't think they are missing out.

There might be times when you want to be able to just coast, like on the interstate, instead of being on-off all the time. And there would be other times when you would want it really high, like maybe in stop and go traffic. I can see this being something all EVs have down the road.

The Volt/Ampera already has this. It's called the L and D modes on the shifter. D is great on the open road and L is fine in stop/go traffic on the motorway or in towns.

 

[mattjs33]

The Volt/Ampera already has this. It's called the L and D modes on the shifter. D is great on the open road and L is fine in stop/go traffic on the motorway or in towns.

Didn't know that, thanks for the clarification. I think making it inifinitely variable (as opposed to just two settings) could be a selling point in that it would let each driver tailor it to their individual tastes.

 

[doug]

If anything, the Karma contribution is putting the various regen modes on the flappy paddles.

 

[PatP]

I own a Model S and a Volt. In my case, I would never own just one fully electric car for many reasons (plus I live in a very cold climate)

So if this new Cadillac would be 4-door that would be our Volt replacement in 2 years.

 

[smorgasbord]

If anything, the Karma contribution is putting the various regen modes on the flappy paddles.

The ELR's paddles do not set the regen mode, they actually engage regen without using the brake pedal. See about 5 minutes into this video:

Am I wrong?

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"fixed"? Meaning the back leg room isn't enough? IF so, how tall are you? My wife is an inch shorter than I am (6'2") and she sits back there with the baby all the time without issue.

Frankly, after sitting in the car, I don't believe you. I'm under 6'. When a driver accelerated hard without warning, I banged the back of my head hard on the roof. The car had the sunroof, btw. The unmovable headrests were too low to help.

When I sit, the seat is low compared to the floor, so my knees are up high. This is uncomfortable for anything but short drives. I feel like Jimmy Stewart in that Moroccan restaurant in The Man Who Knew Too Much.

The front to back legroom is fine, but that's not the whole story.

 

[dpeilow]

Cadillac takes ELR electric coupe to play in the snow - SlashGear

I'm guessing the electronics held up as well as mine do

 

[AnOutsider]

Another article on the regen: VIDEO: Cadillac ELR to introduce Regen on Demand feature | ChargedEVs

Basically, when you pull off the gas, the car coasts instead of regens. If you want to regen, pull the paddle-shifter. I can see how this would be a nice way to bridge the gap for those used to normal automatics, but I find I can coast fairly well by keeping the usage gauge at dead center. This would make it easier to hyper-mile though (and take less effort than how you coast in the S).

Frankly, after sitting in the car, I don't believe you.

Didn't see this until today. What is there not to believe? I said my wife has no issues with leg room and you start contradicting that by talking about headroom?

 

[doug]

 

[dsm363]

Looks nice. Probably where they should have started all along with the Cadillac brand.