Cadillac ELR (Converj)

[magneto]

I've actually driven more with the Model S than with my previous BMW 335d or anything I've owned before it. I've done about 18k miles in less than a year, where I put about 13k/year on my BMW. You feel less bad about packing on the miles knowing that you don't have an upcoming oil change and not having to pay $4+/gallon for diesel. I'd be even more hesitant to make road trips, personally, in a Volt or ELR as there's a well defined line where the cost to drive it ramps up very quickly as you transition from using cheap electricity to expensive gas. With the Model S, the farther I drive, the cheaper it gets on a cost per mile basis because Supercharging (and really even much of the L2 chargers) is free. There are a lot of people claiming "This is what will happen" and the evidence so far just isn't backing that up.

Regardless, I'm glad you're happy with your ELR. I'd like to drive one sometime.

Gear and dsm363: Thanks so much for the information and "open-mindedness" of your attitude. So many of the Model S folks that I run into seem to have this sky-is-falling attitude towards our energy consumption in the US. I really appreciate your thoughts and admire your dedication to working the Tesla and its abilities. The obvious reason that I did not go with the Model S is range issues. I live in Texas and find myself putting 20-30k miles per year on my car and, quite honestly, do not worry that much about per mile cost and worry more about per mile production (as in sales/revenue for my company). I need to be able to drive to wherever I need to be and, hopefully, without a lot of drama. A great example is the fact that my business partner passed away this year and I had to make an emergency trip from DFW to Camden, Arkansas...in a blinding rainstorm no less. The Model S would have never gotten me there without planning, stops at RV parks, etc. and, in this particular situation, who wants/needs to worry about whether or not the destination is just a little bit too far or a little bit out of the way? The Model S was just not a viable option due to its range issue and the fact that charging MUST be defined prior to leaving the 200 mile (round trip) area. The round trips you speak of within the 200 mile range are nice and something that really makes the Tesla an amazing car...and one that everyone should consider if they usually arrive/leave within this mile range. Unfortunately I am not one of those folks. As far as pricing out the Tesla...I wanted one that had all the bells and whistles that I could get (have been blessed so that that could happen) and the thought of reducing my option list just did not work out in my plan. I work pretty hard and one of my rewards in life has always been the car I drive.

The Model S is an amazing car and one that anyone should be proud to have in their garage. The restrictions that go along with the Model S concerning mileage range, charging issues, trip planning is something that potential owners should realize and then decide if the upside to the Model S is worth the "adjustments", if there are any, to their lifestyle. Congratulations on your cars...they are beautiful and certainly a step in the right direction for this country.

 

[dsm363]

Thanks. To you too magneto. Agree the Model S would be difficult for you to do in those trips. Some people are able to work around this in a two car family by using the Model S on days where you are certain your driving is under 200 miles and then switching out for the ICE the of her days. That doesn't always work for everyone obviously.

 

[Gear]

Gear and dsm363: Thanks so much for the information and "open-mindedness" of your attitude. So many of the Model S folks that I run into seem to have this sky-is-falling attitude towards our energy consumption in the US. I really appreciate your thoughts and admire your dedication to working the Tesla and its abilities. The obvious reason that I did not go with the Model S is range issues. I live in Texas and find myself putting 20-30k miles per year on my car and, quite honestly, do not worry that much about per mile cost and worry more about per mile production (as in sales/revenue for my company). I need to be able to drive to wherever I need to be and, hopefully, without a lot of drama. A great example is the fact that my business partner passed away this year and I had to make an emergency trip from DFW to Camden, Arkansas...in a blinding rainstorm no less. The Model S would have never gotten me there without planning, stops at RV parks, etc. and, in this particular situation, who wants/needs to worry about whether or not the destination is just a little bit too far or a little bit out of the way? The Model S was just not a viable option due to its range issue and the fact that charging MUST be defined prior to leaving the 200 mile (round trip) area. The round trips you speak of within the 200 mile range are nice and something that really makes the Tesla an amazing car...and one that everyone should consider if they usually arrive/leave within this mile range. Unfortunately I am not one of those folks. As far as pricing out the Tesla...I wanted one that had all the bells and whistles that I could get (have been blessed so that that could happen) and the thought of reducing my option list just did not work out in my plan. I work pretty hard and one of my rewards in life has always been the car I drive.

The Model S is an amazing car and one that anyone should be proud to have in their garage. The restrictions that go along with the Model S concerning mileage range, charging issues, trip planning is something that potential owners should realize and then decide if the upside to the Model S is worth the "adjustments", if there are any, to their lifestyle. Congratulations on your cars...they are beautiful and certainly a step in the right direction for this country.

Thanks, magneto! You too! I recently had a conversation with somebody who had a similar driving requirement for his job. I told him the same thing, that it would not be the ideal car for him. Hopefully that changes in the near future and electric vehicles make more sense for more people. I think, currently, the Model S would work for the vast majority of the population, especially if it was a two car family as dsm363 mentioned. I'm single and it's effectively my only vehicle (I have a cargo van that I use for hauling motorcycles on rare occasions which only gets 15mpg). I recently had a situation where I considered renting a car for a trip as there wasn't a Supercharger on the way and I had to drive over 300 miles for work. I eventually decided I'd just drive my car for the experience, but if I'd been more time constrained, I would have rented. Fortunately that's the only time that's happened to me so far and there's a Supercharger opening on that route soon.

For you, I definitely think you made the right choice and I'm glad you're enjoying the ELR!

 

[Blastphemy]

When I priced out the Tesla Model S with everything on it that I wanted the price was just a bit south of $110k. Again...the ELR, even with the trade-offs of two less doors, virtually no backseat and slower 0-60 times, STILL looked good at the price it was at.

Why would you price out the P85 or P85+ versus the ELR? Would think the 60 or 85 kWh versions would be more appropriate and still out accelerate the ELR.

If one selects the 60 kWh Model S and adds everything to it (except for P85 options like carbon spoiler and red brake calipers), it prices out at $106,920 (before sales tax and any applicable tax credits/rebates). So you could be making a potentially incorrect assumption that magneto was pricing out a P85 or P85+.

60kWh Model S	$69,900
EXTERIOR
Red Multi-Coat Paint	$1,500
All Glass Panoramic Roof	$2,500
21" Grey Turbine Wheels	$4,500
INTERIOR
Black Performance Leather Seats	$2,500
Carbon Fiber Décor	$800
Matching Yacht Floor	$650
CHARGING
Supercharger Enabled	$2,000
Dual Chargers	$1,500
Wall Connector	$1,200
OPTIONS
Tech Package	$3,750
Smart Air Suspension	$2,250
Parking Sensors	$500
Fog Lamps	$500
Ultra High Fidelity Sound	$2,500
Extended Nappa Leather Trim	$2,500
Alcantara Headline	$1,500
Alcantara Upper Dashboard Trim	Included
Rear Facing Seats	$2,500
Premium Interior Lighting	$1,000
Subzero Weather Package	$750
Parcel Shelf	Included
Paint Armor	$950
Destination & Regulatory Doc Fee	$1,170
TOTAL	$106,920

 

[dsm363]

You forgot to all the extended warranty. Some of the options you added were simply to drive up to price and not make a comparable build (if you can really compare these cars)
I didn't know the ELR had a panoramic roof or rear child seats let alone 21" rims.
This guy did a much fairer assessment and still went with ELR as it suited him better.
http://www.mycadillacelr.com/why-i-picked-the-cadillac-elr-over-the-model-s-60kwh/

 

[Blastphemy]

Where did I write that I was comparing that fully-loaded Model S 60kWh build to an equivalent ELR build? You're obviously reading what you want to see, not what's actually there. You asserted, with no evidence, that magneto's expensive build for a Model S had to be a P85 or P85+. I was simply showing that a 60kWh could easily be loaded up to be "just a bit south of $110k" as magneto stated his configuration was.

I'm sure you're aware that a fully-loaded Model S P85+ is $133,420 - a far cry from "just south of $110k."

No need to be so defensive, dsm363...your car is nice, too!

 

[Blastphemy]

Wow - Cadillac executive Mark Reuss really can't make up his mind:
GM exec: Cadillac ELR not automaker's answer to Tesla | The Detroit News

...sees Tesla Motors Inc. as "a completely serious competitor in every way," but the plug-in hybrid Cadillac ELR is not GM's answer to Tesla cars. Mark Reuss (GM's head of global product development, purchasing, and supply chain) said he is not sure GM has a direct answer to Tesla. "People like to say the ELR is, but it's really not... It's a different car, it's a different price point. It's way-different technology."

Yet barely five months ago he was saying the exact opposite.

And look what you find when you go to Cadillac's website:
ELR Electric Hybrid Competitor Compare | Cadillac

Yup - a comparison of the ELR to the Model S and the BMW 4 Series. D'oh!

No wonder Cadillac has completely failed to successfully market the ELR - management doesn't even agree with marketing about the car, and potential customers don't agree with arrogant, tone-deaf morons like Reuss about the price.

And now EV-killer Johan de Nysschen is being added to this clueless executive team. Good luck with that, GM!

 

[rolosrevenge]

I agree though that the ELR is not the answer to the Tesla, it's their answer to the Panamera plugin and the i8.

 

[thelastdeadmouse]

I agree though that the ELR is not the answer to the Tesla, it's their answer to the Panamera plugin and the i8.

I don't think that the ELR is really a direct competitor to those vehicle either. Those are both sports PHEV's, while the ELR is luxury PHEV / EREV Whether that's a good good thing or bad thing is up for the market to decide, but because of this the ELR falls into a category all its own.

 

[qwk]

The ELR's closest competitor was the Fisker Karma. Now, it's kind of a bastard child of sorts.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

I agree though that the ELR is not the answer to the Tesla, it's their answer to the Panamera plugin and the i8.

Agreed. And it's an answer to a question no one is asking.

 

[mknox]

Agreed. And it's an answer to a question no one is asking.

I'm not so sure about that. If the ELR had just a bit more battery range, I'd be all over it.

 

[magneto]

...Now, it's kind of a bastard child of sorts.

A car born of unmarried parents? Really?

 

[hileyms]

Worldcarfan website is saying that

Cadillac ELR future in doubt, could be discontinued

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114082580108/cadillac-elr-future-in-doubt-could-be-discontinued

Cadillac currently has 1,400 unsold units and through July this year they only delivered 578 cars.

 

[Blastphemy]

I don't think there's any question that a second generation ELR won't be produced. No way. Not with anti-EV executive Johan de Nysschen now in charge of Cadillac. Not with the Panamera S-E Hybrid also barely cracking double digit monthly sales. Not with Volt Gen II coming late next year.

The real question is whether Cadillac will even bother to produce a 2015 ELR. The 2015 Volt has a 17.1 kWh battery... bigger than the ELR. The 2015 Volt has Siri Eyes Free... which the ELR doesn't. The 2015 Volt also has 4G LTE... which the ELR doesn't. The Volt is just as fast as the ELR. The Volt has four doors and a hatchback vs. the ELR's two doors and tiny trunk. And even with discounts up to $25,000 (before tax credits/rebates), Cadillac was only able to sell 188 units last month.

I love my ELR, but boy did Cadillac screw the pooch with its marketing, advertising, pricing, and development. I've consistently said that no one who can't afford the ELR easily should get it (whereas it's worth scraping together funds to buy a Tesla), but for those who can afford the ELR easily and prefer the EREV Voltec model, the car is well worth it. Too bad Cadillac doesn't seem to know how to convince consumers of that!

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Is there likely to be a fire sale at some point of all the units that are not moving? In the sub-$50k range?

 

[Blastphemy]

Interesting quote from this article:

"In roughly four months, Chevrolet is expected to reveal the next-generation Volt slated to go on sale for the 2016 model year. The relatively successful range-extended electric car will transition to its own platform rather than the current application of GM’s Delta II architecture currently underpinning it and the Cadillac ELR. General Motors’ top brass has yet to decide whether or not the plan will include a successor to the ELR. The switchover of the H plant to produce the next-generation Volt may also make continuation of the ELR impossible."

 

[Blastphemy]

And here's the official answer:

2016 Cadillac ELR at the 2014 L.A. Auto Show | Edmunds.com

There will not be a 2015 ELR.

Oh... but wait! There will be a 2016 ELR with "engineering enhancements" (translation: we had to make it faster to compete with Tesla) that will go on sale sometime "in the first half of next year" (translation: June 2015).

From the article: "Car shoppers will note that there is no 2015 Cadillac ELR. [Cadillac spokesman David] Caldwell explained that this is a 'technicality' based on when the car debuted around January 1, 2014" (translation: It's going to take another year to sell off the 2014 inventory, so Cadillac is skipping a model year).

 

[bareyb]

And here's the official answer:

2016 Cadillac ELR at the 2014 L.A. Auto Show | Edmunds.com

There will not be a 2015 ELR.

Oh... but wait! There will be a 2016 ELR with "engineering enhancements" (translation: we had to make it faster to compete with Tesla) that will go on sale sometime "in the first half of next year" (translation: June 2015).

From the article: "Car shoppers will note that there is no 2015 Cadillac ELR. [Cadillac spokesman David] Caldwell explained that this is a 'technicality' based on when the car debuted around January 1, 2014" (translation: It's going to take another year to sell off the 2014 inventory, so Cadillac is skipping a model year).

Faster isn't going to help much. Add a MUCH bigger battery and get rid of the Exhaust pipe and you might be able to compete with Tesla.

 

[dsm363]

Increase electric range to 60 miles maybe you might have a winner. Drop the 0 to 60 time into these 5 to 6 seconds rain would help too.