Can you imagine if a Tesla had killed Anton Yelchin?

[MSullivan]

Right now TSLA stock would be worth about half of what it was last week and the articles would be burning up the Internet.
Tesla finds itself in the same position as Apple. It generates clicks and that is all that matters. Ever see a headline saying Huawei has an antenna problem?
I bet you most people cannot tell you what type of vehicle it is that killed him. They would know if it was a Tesla.
I guess it's good to be at the top, but it sure makes a lot of people gun for you.

‘Star Trek’s’ Anton Yelchin and the scary reality of the Jeep that rolls away and kills you

 

[kort677]

how much of this incident is operator error and how much is design failure?

 

[MSullivan]

how much of this incident is operator error and how much is design failure?

Well there was a recall because people were having trouble knowing if they were in Park or Neutral. I looked at a pic of the shifter in question and it didn't look confusing but you have to design for the lowest common denominator.

 

[Rockster]

His Jeep was recalled in April for a shifter issue that causes it to slip into neutral (or not go into park) when the driver thinks it's been put in park.

More than 130 people have been injured as a result of this Jeep problem.

Where were those dealers who assert that they are the customers' biggest safety advocates?!?!? Making Little Leage shirts and lobbying, I guess.

 

[Derek Kessler]

While I agree with your point about how Tesla, like Apple, gets an unfair amount of media attention at the slightest hint of a problem, I hate to be a buzzkill here:

Really, you're going to use the tragic death of a talented young man to make a point about media bias? Really? Christ.

 

[kort677]

Really, you're going to use the tragic death of a talented young man to make a point about media bias? Really? Christ.

why not? see orlando/government overreach

 

[bhzmark]

how much of this incident is operator error and how much is design failure?

It's design-induced user error.

 

[kort677]

It's design-induced user error.

granted it is poor design, however the driver is part of this equation and it appears that a very small group of owners have exacerbated the poor design by being lazy/inattentive. I would call this a 50/50 problem, the manufacturer delivered a poorly designed system and inattentiveness of people exposed the flaw.

 

[sandpiper]

A Tesla couldn't have done this unless there's some way, that I don't know of, to get out of the car without having it go into park and lock the parking brakes. Mechanical systems have some limitations and are vulnerable in ways that fully electrical / electronic systems simply don't and aren't.

I could see somebody pinning themselves with the "summon" function. But with the radar and torque limiting, I think even that would be a challenge.

 

[SageBrush]

My Prius has a gear shift that does not look much different that the photo in the SUV.
I'll have to go and check, but if memory serves the car complains loudly if the door is opened while in N.

 

[RobertSeattle]

As a new X owner, I appreciate the design where the car just defaults to Park even if I don't set it to Park before opening the door.

On the flip side, I have to double check myself when driving an older non Tesla vehicle.

 

[austinEV]

Tesla cars themselves fall into this group of "confusing shifters". The stalk that doesn't give any physical feedback as to what gear you are in sort of counts. But, tesla cars shift into park if you open the door (at low speed) in N or D. I have done this like 10 times. So without this safety consideration I am Anton.

 

[Johan]

Tesla cars themselves fall into this group of "confusing shifters". The stalk that doesn't give any physical feedback as to what gear you are in sort of counts. But, tesla cars shift into park if you open the door (at low speed) in N or D. I have done this like 10 times. So without this safety consideration I am Anton.

My thoughts exactly after seeing pictures and reading about how the 2014-2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee gear shifter works: Tesla's is the same - notch up or down, no absolute positions, no tactical feedback.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My thoughts exactly after seeing pictures and reading about how the 2014-2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee gear shifter works: Tesla's is the same - notch up or down, no absolute positions, no tactical feedback.

Actually the media mentioned there are other cars that use exactly the same shifter or similar to the Jeep, but the major difference was the car is automatically put into park if you open the doors. The Jeep was the only one that didn't do that and thus caused a significant amount of accidents related to the shifter.

 

[Johan]

Actually the media mentioned there are other cars that use exactly the same shifter or similar to the Jeep, but the major difference was the car is automatically put into park if you open the doors. The Jeep was the only one that didn't do that and thus caused a significant amount of accidents related to the shifter.

So basically there's nothing wrong with the shifter in the Cherokee per se, but rather it becomes a bad/dangerous design when you leave out the "Park on exit" safety feature.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So basically there's nothing wrong with the shifter in the Cherokee per se, but rather it becomes a bad/dangerous design when you leave out the "Park on exit" safety feature.

That is a fair summary. It is a bad design regardless, but it doesn't become a safety issue until the "park on exit" feature is left out. The NHTSA is only concerned about safety issues, not about bad design.

 

[Johan]

That is a fair summary. It is a bad design regardless, but it doesn't become a safety issue until the "park on exit" feature is left out. The NHTSA is only concerned about safety issues, not about bad design.

It doesn't feel like a bad design in my Tesla Model S. I think reason this design was deemed "bad" was the lack of the safety feature much more than it was poor feedback.

 

[sandpiper]

Tesla cars themselves fall into this group of "confusing shifters". The stalk that doesn't give any physical feedback as to what gear you are in sort of counts. But, tesla cars shift into park if you open the door (at low speed) in N or D. I have done this like 10 times. So without this safety consideration I am Anton.

It's different from a mechanical drive train, but I don't think it's confusing. It's just something different to get accustomed to. Tesla could have implemented a positional gear shifter easily enough. But that would have precluded some of the programmed safety features - like switching to park when the door opens.

 

[dhanson865]

Well there was a recall because people were having trouble knowing if they were in Park or Neutral. I looked at a pic of the shifter in question and it didn't look confusing but you have to design for the lowest common denominator.

Have you watched the video showing how to use that shifter?

It's fly by wire and returns to center after every user input. You can't feel where the knob is to know what gear the vehicle is in.

No big deal on it's own but on a hybrid or EV you don't mind turning the car off and they put automatically put the car in park when you turn it off (in addition to having a physical park button on most, the computer will put it in park for you if you just turn the car off).

Gas/Diesel drivers want to leave the car running in those short get out of the car cases.

 

[Tam]

how much of this incident is operator error and how much is design failure?

Tesla technology can overrides operator error so if Anton Yelchin got a Tesla and forgot to turn it off or forgot and still left the gear on Reverse, as soon as he got out of a Tesla, a seat sensor would sense an absence of a driver and would turn off the car, the gear would be on Park and it would apply the parking brake system to make sure this kind of accident can never happen even if again, it's an operator error.