CCS Adapter for North America

[MP3Mike]

How would that be an excuse for anything? The SETEC adapter plugs into CCS chargers, so if they're going to use it as an excuse for anything, it would have been to discontinue CCS.

They were saying that most of the users for their CHAdeMO chargers were Teslas using the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. And now that people have the ability to buy the SETEC adapter and use the CCS chargers, for which there are many more of, they no longer need to install CHAdeMO chargers.

From Electrify America's Cycle 3 National Investment Plan:

In recent years, the automotive industry has converged on CCS as the non-proprietary standard of choice for vehicles in the U.S. Nissan, the last BEV manufacturer producing CHAdeMO vehicles for the North American market, has announced that the upcoming Ariya will use CCS charging (Goodwin, 2020).


As sales of all new BEVs shift to CCS, Electrify America forecasts that over 90% of the non-Tesla BEVs in operation will use CCS by 2025. Electrify America is already seeing this shift at our stations. CHAdeMO usage (including Tesla via CHAdeMO adapter) accounted for just 9% of station usage in the first quarter of 2021, down from 15% in 2019, despite CHAdeMO chargers making up over 20% of all DCFC equipment at our stations.

In addition, whereas historically a CHAdeMO adapter was the only way to fast charge Tesla vehicles outside of the Supercharger network, in late-2020 Setec Power released a CCS to Tesla adapter (Moloughney, 2020), thereby unlocking CCS chargers to interested Tesla drivers.

Through Cycles 1 and 2, Electrify America will have built over 800 CHAdeMO stations across the country. Together with nearly 5,000 chargers built by other networks, legacy CHAdeMO drivers have access to a robust charging network. At the time of writing, the ratio of CHAdeMO vehicles in operation to CHAdeMO DCFC is just 22:1.


Given this, Electrify America will focus its Cycle 3 investment on the future of electrification and deploy CCS as the non-proprietary standard at our stations. This action helps to reinforce the automotive manufacturers’ convergence on a single standard, reduces customer confusion, reduces capital and operating costs, and ultimately is expected to lead to increased EV adoption.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

After selecting the station you want, does it start preheating the battery?

Don't know. Which is why I've set Nav to go to the Tesla SC after the EA site, in order to preheat the battery. But I'll experiment and get back to everyone with what I find.

Rich

 

[ambudriver03]

After selecting the station you want, does it start preheating the battery?

Don't know. Which is why I've set Nav to go to the Tesla SC after the EA site, in order to preheat the battery. But I'll experiment and get back to everyone with what I find.

Rich

Vehicle did not begin preheating upon navigation to Electrify America, nor EVgo (even an EvGO station with known tesla plugs, and displays on the tesla nav).

I was able to get it to "condition the battery" by navigating to a supercharger a few miles away... and I drove around for a good 20 minutes trying to give it plenty of time

I too would like to have a [condition battery for fast charging] button...

 

[masotime]

I drove around for a good 20 minutes trying to give it plenty of time

I think you might not need to drive around - maybe try this sequence while parked

* Ensure you're reasonably near a supercharger (not more than 30mi / 50km away)
* Set the navigation to a supercharger
* Press the brake pedal once

I believe preconditioning will automatically trigger, although you'll still have to remain in the car while it's conditioning.

 

[jboy210]

I think you might not need to drive around - maybe try this sequence while parked

* Ensure you're reasonably near a supercharger (not more than 30mi / 50km away)
* Set the navigation to a supercharger
* Press the brake pedal once

I believe preconditioning will automatically trigger, although you'll still have to remain in the car while it's conditioning.

Good idea. I know if I punch in a Supercharger as a destination and go the opposite direction and make short stops (ex. Starbucks and/or bagel store) along the way the car will still continue to pre-condition the battery while I stay in the car and my wife goes in, or visa verse.

 

[ambudriver03]

I think you might not need to drive around - maybe try this sequence while parked

* Ensure you're reasonably near a supercharger (not more than 30mi / 50km away)
* Set the navigation to a supercharger
* Press the brake pedal once

I believe preconditioning will automatically trigger, although you'll still have to remain in the car while it's conditioning.

I was less than 4 miles away. It needed a few mins... I wanted to give it a decent shot at a fast charge.

I'll have to drive a bit farther away to a faster CCS when I can manage a low SoC)...

Also electrify America didn't bill me for my charging session... They authorized my session, and did the auto-rebuy for $20, then when it did the authorizing screen it said payment declined, then started delivering power. The app showed 'initializing' the entire time, and the dispenser showed "please disconnect to start a new charging session"

I guess I'll take the free 20 kwh then?

 

[spokey]

Tried mine out today just to see how it worked. Did not try any preconditioning. I drove about 12 miles to Costco. Returned an item after waiting in line for maybe 10 minutes. Drove maybe 1/4 mile to the other end of the parking lot. Fumbled a bit as a first time user of the CCS and EA. I had a bit of trouble getting the charger started. NFC swiping didn't work and I ended up doing it in the app.

It was a 150kw station. I didn't really note beginning / ending rate but took a couple screen shots. Went from 32 -> 80% in 22 minutes. At 40% the Tesla app was reporting 124kw / 505mph and by 53% was down to 110/443. All in all I was pleased.

I am a little confused though about how they charge. the EA app say The cost before tax divided by .43 = the reported 36 kwh added. Teslafi reports 35.61. OK close enough. But Teslfi also reports 38kWh used which matches their ~93% efficiency. Not sure how they know the 38. But it would seem EA charges on kWh delivered, not used.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

They were saying that most of the users for their CHAdeMO chargers were Teslas using the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter. And now that people have the ability to buy the SETEC adapter and use the CCS chargers, for which there are many more of, they no longer need to install CHAdeMO chargers.

From Electrify America's Cycle 3 National Investment Plan:

Of course they were. Why would Nissan Leaf owners choose ElectrifyAmerica over other locations? To them it's just another 1-plug location and they get free charging deals at EVGo.

To be honest, I find it sickening that ElectrifyAmerica got away with only having 1 CHAdeMO plug per location.

 

[jsight]

Of course they were. Why would Nissan Leaf owners choose ElectrifyAmerica over other locations? To them it's just another 1-plug location and they get free charging deals at EVGo.

To be honest, I find it sickening that ElectrifyAmerica got away with only having 1 CHAdeMO plug per location.

I asked a Leaf owner (Uber driver) that once at an EA station. He pointed to the pricing. The nearby EVGo is much more expensive here.

 

[israndy]

I am a little confused though about how they charge. the EA app say 36 kwh added. Teslafi reports 35.61. OK close enough. But Teslfi also reports 38kWh used which matches their ~93% efficiency. Not sure how they know the 38. But it would seem EA charges on kWh delivered, not used.

I figure they have a sensor in the charge cable that measures ALL the power coming into the car, some goes to lights, some to AC, some to the 12v inverter for other stuff including charging that battery. Then another sensor measures the power going to charge just the battery.

 

[ambudriver03]

I am a little confused though about how they charge. the EA app say The cost before tax divided by .43 = the reported 36 kwh added. Teslafi reports 35.61. OK close enough. But Teslfi also reports 38kWh used which matches their ~93% efficiency. Not sure how they know the 38. But it would seem EA charges on kWh delivered, not used.

TeslaFi reports à pretty close number from what was delivered, vs what was added.

EA says 20.12kwH delivered, TeslaFi says 20.4, ~1.3% difference.
2.2 kwh was likely burned heating up the battery even more (i 'preconditioned' ahead, but clearly wasn't done)

In teslafi speak :
Used ≈ Delivered (should very closely match what shows on the DCFC screen/app)
Added = energy that went into your battery.
Efficiency is the ratio of consumed electricity vs that which became useful and banked in your battery.

Charging is 98-99% efficient with a 100% pre-heated battery,

EA and most charging pedestals (indeed tesla for the last year or two) - you pay for the delivered energy (losses at the transformer and ac-dc rectification do not get passed to the consumer)

The "dispenser" likely has a high voltage high amperage DC shunt that measures the current and then bills you based on the power it measures at the dispenser. I don't think they can bill you for the lights on the unit, the self consumption of the unit is part of their overhead, not yours.

Likewise, the car can determine how much power was received. And how much of that power actually went to battery.
I think the AirCon consumes nearly 2kw at full blast, so you can see that it decreases your charging efficiency if you have to heat, or cool the cabin.

 

[spokey]

I think I get all that (maybe). But I think the actual confusion is the cost. Tesla reports ~36 which is what EA seems to have charged for. It seems like someone knows about 2kWh overhead that Teslafi found out about and wasn't charged for. That last bit is the surprise/confusion. Why was I charged for 36 which as best I can tell went in to the battery and not the 38 which appears to be what went in to the car. Not complaining of course. Just trying to understand.

 

[tivoboy]

Is there a list of vehicles that this can apply to? I guess a may 2018 M3 is just SOL?

 

[israndy]

If you are thinking the May 2018 M3 cannot use the CCS adapter I am here to tell you you are mistaken:

Retrofit CCS compatibility onto earlier (NA) Model 3 - DIY approach

Of course there will probably be an official upgrade once the CCS adapter is available in the US, but if'n you wanna get it from Korea the DIY approach is about as simple. If you need a hand I am around (although on the other side of the bay)

 

[ambudriver03]

I think I get all that (maybe). But I think the actual confusion is the cost. Tesla reports ~36 which is what EA seems to have charged for. It seems like someone knows about 2kWh overhead that Teslafi found out about and wasn't charged for. That last bit is the surprise/confusion. Why was I charged for 36 which as best I can tell went in to the battery and not the 38 which appears to be what went in to the car. Not complaining of course. Just trying to understand.

@spokey A screenshot of teslafi or your EA charge summary would be helpful.

Though suffice it to say that you ALMOST never get the amount that is delivered, added to the battery...

These are snapshots from my favorite Arizona V3, the trip in Jan and Feb were near 100% efficient because it wasn't 96 degrees outside, vs the two bottom charges it was in the high 90s and air-con ate at least 1kw of energy during each of those charges.

 

[spokey]

@spokey A screenshot of teslafi or your EA charge summary would be helpful.

. . .

thanks. yeah pretty dopey of me not to.

teslafi and the EA screen for said charge.

 

[ambudriver03]

That's pretty weird, based on that graphic, it looks like you didn't get charged for the charging overhead...

though I think it's more likely a TeslaFi error perhaps, there's a way to change the "kWh used factor",

in your case 94.6 would probably be the value to put in the box, it would also cause the cost you paid to match the teslafi 'cost' value as well (as long as you told tesla fi how much per kwH it costs there)

 

[M3Kat]

Given that the Model 3 now supports the CHAdeMO adapter, is the idea of a CCS adapter dead? I would love to get a CCS adapter that was smaller, cheaper and supports 150kW for my 3, spending $600CAD on a CHAdeMO that is huge and only supports 50kW seems to be a waste.

Are Tesla working on a CCS adapter for North America?

The Tesla Korea CCS adapter apparently works in the US. I just purchased one through Harumio Korea. We'll when I get it. Check the podcast here on TMC #10 about how Marc acquired his from Korea.

 

[jboy210]

Of course they were. Why would Nissan Leaf owners choose ElectrifyAmerica over other locations? To them it's just another 1-plug location and they get free charging deals at EVGo.

To be honest, I find it sickening that ElectrifyAmerica got away with only having 1 CHAdeMO plug per location.

EA being built is part of the settlement with the US Gov for VW Dieselgate. I bet if VW had Chademo there would a lot more of those chargers.

 

[spokey]

I got mine from Harumio on Wednesday evening. Only have one test but it was giving me 124kW (out of a 150 stall) when I was at 40% or so SOC. I just went on the Harumio site and ordered it. It took 15 days but that was over our memorial day weekend. The case (if in stock) might seem pricey but I got it and I'm happy I did.