CCS Adapter for North America

[echen]

The AC Hotel by Marriott Beverly Hills has EV charging. I assume L2 (I can't recall the exact setup, I had a rental ICE at the time).

AC Hotels are in the trash hotel tier if someone is considering Editions (which are flagship Marriott properties)...

I'm sure if you call the Edition and let them know when you're coming in, they'll be more than happy to hold the charger for you (assuming nobody else has done so). It's a nice hotel with nice amenities/service.

 

[bradtem]

Equipment manufacturers (ABB, BTCPower, efacec, Signet, whoever) can license the Tesla Proprietary Connector (TPC) from Tesla so that their equipment can communicate with Tesla vehicles and be at the mercy of Tesla.

Alternatively, equipment manufacturers can just let Tesla drivers bring their own adapters and not have to deal with any of that nonsense.

The manufacturers chose the second option.

Indeed, which means Tesla did it wrong. It's good -- not just good but fantastic -- if DC Fast stations put on Tesla cables or if they stock Tesla adapters. I don't know why Tesla didn't just give CHAdeMO adapters to every DC Fast station that isn't next door to a supercharger. As a Tesla driver, I just want to know I can charge in more places. That's why they spend lots and lots of money putting in superchargers. It's not to make a profit on electricity. Instead of spending half a million dollars to put in a new supercharger, they can spend $400 to send an adapter to a DC Fast charger and get almost the same benefit! To me it's crazy they don't do that, and instead created a world where only the small fraction of Tesla owners who carry around their own adapter can have this.

In fact, they should have gone all out -- cables or adapters for everybody, help them speak the Tesla billing protocol, do the billing for them on the Tesla owner's card (perhaps after owner approves the sometimes higher prices.) I really can't figure out why they didn't. If they really wanted to profit from selling the electricity, they could even take a cut of the sales and add a little to the price. Tesla owners don't seem to care about the price, to be frank.

But they didn't do this and it makes no sense. If I were in charge I would be offering a free connector and cable to any DC Fast station going in any location more than a few miles from a supercharger (or even next door to superchargers that get lines.) I would do what I could to get the communications working to do plug to charge etc.

On trading your CdM for CCS -- I have to admit I am amazed at how high the cost on eBay has been for CdM adapters. $800 to $1100. I would have predicted it will crash, and still predict it will crash after the CCS comes out. There are very few places where there is only CdM and no CCS, and those places will vanish. The CCS adapter will be superior in every way (as long as you can get the charge controller update.)

 

[Rocky_H]

There is no such thing as some "cords".

The (charging) equipment needs to be able to communicate with the Tesla vehicle.

The only ways to do that are for the equipment's manufacturers to either get the specifications from Tesla by licensing the TPC or to reverse engineer it.

Currently, the EVGo solution is not doing either of those two things, which you assert are the "only" way to do it. They did not license Tesla communication protocols, and they did not seem to need to reverse engineer something. They are using Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter in a different kind of physical configuration. We don't know, of course, what the details were of who exactly built that. Tesla was already having a third party manufacturing company build their CHAdeMO adapters. So when EVGo approached them to work out a deal, maybe Tesla arranged for these extra long cord versions of the CHAdeMO adapter to be built so they could sell them to EVGo.

 

[wornout]

AC Hotels are in the trash hotel tier if someone is considering Editions (which are flagship Marriott properties)...

I'm sure if you call the Edition and let them know when you're coming in, they'll be more than happy to hold the charger for you (assuming nobody else has done so). It's a nice hotel with nice amenities/service.

Trash tier is a bit harsh.... lol. I just appreciate design forward hotels. (Translated: I was spoiled by years of business travel and can't go back.)

Yeah, that's the plan. I plan to call Edition when I'm hitting the road in SJ and go from there. I just want to be excessively prepared with this CCS adapter.

Best case scenario is the West Hollywood SuperCharger opens by Q2 and I'm good to go.

West Hollywood, CA | Tesla

Schedule a Tesla test drive at a time and date that is convenient for you.

www.tesla.com

 

[stopcrazypp]

There is no such thing as some "cords".

The (charging) equipment needs to be able to communicate with the Tesla vehicle.

The only ways to do that are for the equipment's manufacturers to either get the specifications from Tesla by licensing the TPC or to reverse engineer it.

For CCS-only chargers, I'm talking about simply about providing a cord with essentially this adapter on it (or an equivalent) or box with a TPC cable. Just make it clear with a sign that it only works for CCS enabled cars.

For CHAdeMO equipped chargers, they can just add a box with extended cord just like EVGo did. No need to reverse engineer anything or license.

I believe EVGo used to chain a CHAdeMO adapter to its chargers, this is just a more elegant solution.

 

[Mockingbird]

Indeed, which means Tesla did it wrong. It's good -- not just good but fantastic -- if DC Fast stations put on Tesla cables or if they stock Tesla adapters. I don't know why Tesla didn't just give CHAdeMO adapters to every DC Fast station that isn't next door to a supercharger. As a Tesla driver, I just want to know I can charge in more places. That's why they spend lots and lots of money putting in superchargers. It's not to make a profit on electricity. Instead of spending half a million dollars to put in a new supercharger, they can spend $400 to send an adapter to a DC Fast charger and get almost the same benefit! To me it's crazy they don't do that, and instead created a world where only the small fraction of Tesla owners who carry around their own adapter can have this.

In fact, they should have gone all out -- cables or adapters for everybody, help them speak the Tesla billing protocol, do the billing for them on the Tesla owner's card (perhaps after owner approves the sometimes higher prices.) I really can't figure out why they didn't. If they really wanted to profit from selling the electricity, they could even take a cut of the sales and add a little to the price. Tesla owners don't seem to care about the price, to be frank.

But they didn't do this and it makes no sense. If I were in charge I would be offering a free connector and cable to any DC Fast station going in any location more than a few miles from a supercharger (or even next door to superchargers that get lines.) I would do what I could to get the communications working to do plug to charge etc.

On trading your CdM for CCS -- I have to admit I am amazed at how high the cost on eBay has been for CdM adapters. $800 to $1100. I would have predicted it will crash, and still predict it will crash after the CCS comes out. There are very few places where there is only CdM and no CCS, and those places will vanish. The CCS adapter will be superior in every way (as long as you can get the charge controller update.)

There is your mistake.

What Tesla drivers want ≠ what Tesla wants

Tesla doesn't want Tesla drivers to fast charge anywhere else other than the Supercharger.

The walled garden is good for business. Tesla doesn't want Tesla drivers to leave the walled garden.

You may question why Tesla even bothers to release the CHAdeMO and CCS adapter.

There are inevitably going to be some people who are the exceptions: need to fast charge at places where there simply aren't Superchargers nearby.

If they can't, they simply wouldn't buy Tesla's vehicles.

For everyone else though, Tesla doesn't want him/her to fast charger anywhere other than the Supercharger.

 

[Mockingbird]

Currently, the EVGo solution is not doing either of those two things, which you assert are the "only" way to do it. They did not license Tesla communication protocols, and they did not seem to need to reverse engineer something. They are using Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter in a different kind of physical configuration. We don't know, of course, what the details were of who exactly built that. Tesla was already having a third party manufacturing company build their CHAdeMO adapters. So when EVGo approached them to work out a deal, maybe Tesla arranged for these extra long cord versions of the CHAdeMO adapter to be built so they could sell them to EVGo.

The CHAdeMO is limited to 50 kW.

That means that most Tesla drivers wouldn't charge at those locations unless it's a last resort.

 

[Mockingbird]

For CCS-only chargers, I'm talking about simply about providing a cord with essentially this adapter on it (or an equivalent) or box with a TPC cable. Just make it clear with a sign that it only works for CCS enabled cars.

That's too complicated for the majority of Tesla users.

Network operators are going to get daily complaints about non-working equipment.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That's too complicated for the majority of Tesla users.

Network operators are going to get daily complaints about non-working equipment.

Tesla can help by showing on the screen if it detects a possible CCS based connection (they might already do that, I guess we'll find out when the adapter is launched). Also when the adapter fully launches, way more people would be aware of "CCS enabled".

Network operators can make their own judgement of cost/benefit in terms of possible complaints versus expanding the user base. A lot of them were in trouble because of low utilization. Tesla remains the largest user base (and growing) in terms of DC enabled vehicles (which is why EVGo even bothered to come up with that CHAdeMO box solution).

 

[Mockingbird]

Tesla can help by showing on the screen if it detects a possible CCS based connection (they might already do that, I guess we'll find out when the adapter is launched). Also when the adapter fully launches, way more people would be aware of "CCS enabled".

Network operators can make their own judgement of cost/benefit in terms of possible complaints versus expanding the user base. A lot of them were in trouble because of low utilization. Tesla remains the largest user base (and growing) in terms of DC enabled vehicles (which is why EVGo even bothered to come up with that CHAdeMO box solution).

A majority of Tesla users probably don't even know what CCS and CHAdeMO are.

A significant portion probably doesn't know that they can charge their vehicles elsewhere other than at the Supercharger.

 

[alexcue]

I have the same status (when I translate it using Google Translate). Seems the order hasn't been cancelled yet, so that's good.

Can't believe how much of a premium people are paying for these on eBay...

TESLA CSS Combo 1 Adapter sold in KOREA | eBay

Ukraine Forever!

www.ebay.com

That is insane!!! I got mine for $330 shipped, should be here next Wednesday. All thanks to this Forum!

 

[Mockingbird]

 

[jsight]

That's too complicated for the majority of Tesla users.

Network operators are going to get daily complaints about non-working equipment.

Have you used those networks? It is obvious that daily complaints wouldn't be a problem for them. They are really good at ignoring them.

 

[bradtem]

There is your mistake.

What Tesla drivers want ≠ what Tesla wants

Tesla doesn't want Tesla drivers to fast charge anywhere else other than the Supercharger.

The walled garden is good for business. Tesla doesn't want Tesla drivers to leave the walled garden.

You may question why Tesla even bothers to release the CHAdeMO and CCS adapter.

There are inevitably going to be some people who are the exceptions: need to fast charge at places where there simply aren't Superchargers nearby.

If they can't, they simply wouldn't buy Tesla's vehicles.

For everyone else though, Tesla doesn't want him/her to fast charger anywhere other than the Supercharger.

Sorry, and you know this how? What is your source ?

It's not rational they should want people in a walked garden. They have said the opposite and there are strong business reasons against it. They have often said they don't want to make money off superchargers. That they just want Tesla owners to be able to drive where they want with ease so that Tesla is the best or only choice in an EV. This strange walled garden theory is at odds with it so I wonder what source you have?

 

[acarney]

Mine was delivered to my buddy. He’s doing an unboxing and overview of it (he wrote an EV focused book in Korean) and then he’s going to forward it off to me. As things are it’s ALWAYS over the weekend, probably won’t see it until Thursday or Friday next week if I’m lucky, but I absolutely can’t wait!

Looks like about $240 USD + maybe $50 to ship… not sure if Amex is going to charge me a foreign exchange fee or not, but $290 isn’t too dang bad! It’s generally expected to be about $250 when it goes on sale here so a very small premium to get it in my hands!

 

[Mockingbird]

Sorry, and you know this how? What is your source ?

It's not rational they should want people in a walked garden. They have said the opposite and there are strong business reasons against it. They have often said they don't want to make money off superchargers. That they just want Tesla owners to be able to drive where they want with ease so that Tesla is the best or only choice in an EV. This strange walled garden theory is at odds with it so I wonder what source you have?

Tesla is obviously not going to say the quiet part out loud, but the point of a walled garden is to keep people from leaving.

It is a lot easier for a Tesla driver who often fast charge elsewhere other than the Supercharger to switch to a non-Tesla EV than for a Tesla driver who only fast charge at the Supercharger to do so.

 

[lynyrdM]

Tesla is obviously not going to say the quiet part out loud, but the point of a walled garden is to keep people from leaving.

It is a lot easier for a Tesla driver who often fast charge elsewhere other than the Supercharger to switch to a non-Tesla EV than for a Tesla driver who only fast charge at the Supercharger to do so.

We don’t truly know for sure if it’s apathy or malice. I wouldn’t be surprised if the management at Tesla that could affect change simply doesn’t care about third-party charging in the US.

I myself was pretty upset when they simply discontinued the Chademo adapter then didn’t immediately replace it with the CCS1 adapter. That left all new Tesla users to have to scavenge on the second-hand market for a now fixed supply of Chademo adapters in order to access open charging networks.

They’ve already said they will release the CCS1 adapter to North America last year but they’re really stringing us along. Tesla has a history of doing that though with highly sought after features. Make a promise for something to come soon, only for it to take years to implement (waypoints are a great example).

Knowing that, I could easily see Tesla honestly having intent to deliver this adapter but deeming it to be low priority and putting it on the furthest back backburner. They might simply not care about this as much as we do which is unfortunate.

 

[gglockner]

Tesla is obviously not going to say the quiet part out loud, but the point of a walled garden is to keep people from leaving.

A Tesla residential wall charger probably does more to keep Tesla owners as repeat customers than discouraging use of alternate Level 3 chargers.

 

[Y_4_speed]

Got an error message when trying a 200kw CCS station by Francis Energy:

EZ GO McAlester | PlugShare
When I moved to a 60kW station it worked.

Picture or the model that failed and error message attached.

 

[KzooMYP]

The CHAdeMO is limited to 50 kW.

That means that most Tesla drivers wouldn't charge at those locations unless it's a last resort.

I looked up how fast 50kw charging actually is (I've only ever experienced 7-10kw L2 charging or 150kw SC). The 50kw CHAdeMO adapter can do about 184mi/hr, does that sound right?


That CHAdeMO adapter is a tough sell. $500 for a (slow) adapter that uses technology that is already being phased out.

Tesla really needs to get these CCS adapters available worldwide