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Got a cite? Authentication these days is almost exclusively cert based, and cert math is only slow in computer terms, not human terms... so I'm surprised.
OTOH, I'd expect a fair amount of CCS handshake (outside of Plug&Charge or other external authentication/authorization) is checklist things, where it's VERY easy to believe car makers don't optimize it at all and make it work with random "sleep(2);"s
Xelloss99
Member
It shouldn't have to be that slow, but there does need to be certificates exchanged through PLC on the charge port cable which is slow relatively speaking compared to Internet/cellular data networks, then the charging station needs to contact the charge port operator backend through the network, and the charge port operator back end needs to contact the billing operator back end through the network to verify payment. Then the actual CCS handshake for charging.
Here's the basics of the Plug and Charge.
The basics are that the car has a unique certificate from the car manufacturer (stored on the car), the charging station has a unique certificate from the charge port operator (stored on the charging station). The car owner will set up an a contract (account) with their mobility operator (their billing agent) who will issue a unique contract certificate which identifies the mobility operator and account information (this will also be stored on the car).
When the car is plugged in, the charging station and car exchange certificates through PLC on the charging cable to verify authenticity and establish a TLS connection.
The car then sends its contract certificate to the charging station through the TLS connection using PLC on the charging cable.
The charging station then passes this certificate to the charge port operator backend through the network which will then contact the mobility operator backend through the network to verify that there is a valid contract and payment method on file.
If all is good, the mobility operator backend confirms to the charge port operator backend and the charge port operator backend sends confirmation to the charging station to start the charge session.
Then the charging station can start its standard charging handshake with the vehicle once the billing contract phase is complete..
The Setec adapter logging tool gives a good look into how long the CCS charging handshake and precharge phase takes (~20-21 seconds, but precharge time may vary depending on "spin-up" time on the charging station).
Of course, it doesn't do Plug and Charge so the billing in this case is through the standard app or NFC card which would be a different timeframe
The logging process goes through the following states (states from IEC 61851-25:2020, not actually stated by name in the Setec logs)
The vehicle identifies that the connector is connected (State A)
There's a big delay in verifying billing information (which would be part of the Plug and Charge validation on a Plug and Charge session).
Then the car and charging station exchange voltage/current requirements for about 1.8 seconds (State B2-B3)
Then 0.3 seconds later, the car gives the go ahead to start charging with the pilot signal (State B4)
Then its about half a second delay, then the insulation test and precharge phase for 18 seconds (State B5)
Then once the charging station is ready, charging starts (State C)
A cert's about 5k(bytes). Even a 128k(bits) serial link can transfer that in about a half-second... The math usually takes less than a tenth... (assuming Raspberry Pi, so that's worst case already). It's a ton of math by normal standards, but not by computer standards. So ... yeah, I'm assuming most of that time is backend/network items, with very very slow backends.
FWIW, the CCS handshake w/ the Tesla seemed to be closer to 5s than 20s. It was already ramped up to ~80 before I got Scan-my-Tesla back out and up and turned to the right tab, and the light was flashing blue before I got the camera out/up. But ... As I mentioned, I'd plugged in before swipping on the app.
FWIW, the CCS handshake w/ the Tesla seemed to be closer to 5s than 20s. It was already ramped up to ~80 before I got Scan-my-Tesla back out and up and turned to the right tab, and the light was flashing blue before I got the camera out/up. But ... As I mentioned, I'd plugged in before swipping on the app.
It looks like EV Go will support Autocharge:
EVgo is first North American EV Charging Network to Deploy Autocharge Technology, Enabling an Instant Start-Your-Charge Experience Without Apps or Cards
Autocharge launched first on EVgo’s Dedicated Network for General Motors’ Maven Gig Members, followed by nationwide rollout to all CCS chargers by end of 2019
www.evgo.com
Thanks for the details I didn't know that this was even a thing. I can't wait for my CC addapter. (Tesla please take my $$$).
I know! This gets to my Number 1 complaint with Tesla--poor communication; with both individual customers and with the customer base as a whole.
Why not have PR (not you-know-who) establish a reasonable anticipated date (e.g., for CCS1 adapter release)? Then, if delays occur, which is inevitable with all technological activities, why not keep customers reasonably apprised of progress? I think fans would be (more) tolerant.
Instead, the communication vacuum invites rumors, inaccurate information, and resentment. It gives ammunition to Tesla's enemies. Someone at the top levels is listening to bad advice (perhaps in an effort to save money that would otherwise go to a competent PR department).
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bobby g
Member
Not sure if a PR dept is required. It could just be a change in employee, all levels, attitude. I've sent texts to two managers, one divisional director and applied for a position. I've never received never received anything back at all. Come on, a lol or an FU, something. That and the incentive disappearing act, wtf
Figured I would update my CCS1 adapter from evhubs experience. On Friday I was able to pull 170kW using it at an electrify america station
Mockingbird
Member
European Tesla Model 3/Y can do 195 kW on Ionity's 350 kW charger.
I wonder if North America Tesla Model 3/Y can pull that off with the CCS1 adapter on Electrify America's 350 kW charger.
FYI. I just received notification from Tesla-Korea that the CCS1 adapter there is once again in stock (though in limited quantities). Tesla South Korea CCS1 Adapter. ₩299,200 = $249.48. When I sign into my account on the Tesla South Korea website, a yellow exclamation mark warning does say, "This product is not suitable for vehicles in your Tesla account."
I am tempted to try to order one anyway, but won't because:
Another interesting Tesla South Korean product is the CHAdeMO adapter, also currently available. AFAIK, it comes with the TPC plug, so it should work in North America, right?
I am tempted to try to order one anyway, but won't because:
- Tesla may stop the order at some point, anyway.
- Even if successful, I imagine that shipping could be expensive (it is a heavy object for its size).
- It is for Models 3 and Y. Based on photos, physically, the shape and locking pin of the adapter appear meant to accommodate the large flat expanse of the Models 3/Y charging port area. Not sure it could fit or work within the smaller Model X charging port area. Maybe scratch the paint (with the pin) or interfere with the open port cover.
- Frankly, I do not have a pressing need for a CCS1 adapter just this minute. I can afford to wait for a North American version that fits Models S and X.
- And I suppose I don't want to deny one to a deserving South Korean or North American driver, who has been waiting.
Another interesting Tesla South Korean product is the CHAdeMO adapter, also currently available. AFAIK, it comes with the TPC plug, so it should work in North America, right?
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The shipping address is now hardcoded to Korea. I don't see a way to order it and have it ship to the USA.
Mockingbird
Member
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Use a forwarding shipping company. Here's one:
Korea Forwarding Service - Buy from Korea
Buy any items from Korea. Simplified Korean Shopping - Buy from Korea in 4 steps - Korea Proxy Shipping Service - Bunjang supported - We ship worldwide with FedEx and DHL.
www.harum.io
Eh, I don't actually need it enough to want to mess with that. I'll just wait until it's out in the US.Use a forwarding shipping company. Here's one:
Korea Forwarding Service - Buy from Korea
Buy any items from Korea. Simplified Korean Shopping - Buy from Korea in 4 steps - Korea Proxy Shipping Service - Bunjang supported - We ship worldwide with FedEx and DHL.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Mockingbird
Member
If the alternative is level 2 or level 1 charging, someone really does need it that much.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I believe you. I acknowledge that it is electronically compatible with the newer Models S and X. (We can verify that now because of the Tesla Holiday firmware updates.) However, I worry* that its size and shape (in photographs) is seemingly not altogether physically compatible with the Models S/X port. Won't the locking pin hit the painted surface of the car next to the port? (Not sure.) And why would the South Korean adapter not be compatible to newer South Korean Models S/X?
Has anyone tried a South Korean adapter in a newer (North American) Model S or X?
______
* Worried because if a different adapter design is necessary for the Models S/X version, it could be slowing up the release.
