Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[TonyWilliams]

The Kia Soul EV and Hyundai Ioniq have a stated nominal pack voltage of 360v.

What would the nominal voltage have to do with the debate? The max voltage is still 400v, plus or minus 5v.
There are 96 cells in series at a maximum of 4.2v per cell. Loads of other cars, including "large battery" Tesla cars share this configuration.

The 69-70 kW charge rate I've seen photos or videos of for the Soul EV and Ioniq reached that rate at around 66-76% state of charge so the charging voltage was likely around 390-400v which make the current be around 175-180a.

I doubt that VERY seriously. Not even a Tesla 100D is banging out 175-180a at 400v !!!

The peak current is likely reached at very low state of charge. One video shows the Ioniq starting a charge at 10% and quickly ramps up to about 62 kW which probably implies around 190-200a and then the power very slowly rises with increasing state of charge and charging voltage as the current slowly falls.

It's absolutely at 200 amps, therefore:

62kW / 200a = 310 volts (yep, that about right for 10% on a 96s pack)
70kW / 200a = 350 volts
72kW / 200a = 360 volts (I doubt the Ioniq charges faster than this)

Again, it's easy to guess the voltage when we already know that it is 96 cells in series... just like a Tesla.

All evidence I've seen and heard points to a peak current of around 150a for the Bolt EV.

There's zero evidence of that. There's circumstantial statements, like the reference to "80kW" in the owner's manual. I suspect that this is the charger placard for some mythical 200a * 400v charger that doesn't currently exist.

I fully expect the future Bolt to charge at 200a, just as I am sure that it is restricted to 125 amps today. We can easily prove this to end the debate, and we will.

Seems reasonable but I would guess 90-95 kW for an actual 55 kWh pack. Of course, it would tend to be higher if it has a larger capacity that is limited by software until an owner pays for an over-the-air update to access the full actual capacity as in today's 75 kWh S60.

It would kill any car company to sell millions of cars with an extra thousands of dollars worth of unpaid for hardware in the hope that somebody might actually pay for it later. Plus, those same battery cells will likely be cheaper in the future. I don't think this is wise, and a completely different concept in a $100,000 car.

If it's like the S and X then the Model 3's smallest pack may have a smaller nominal pack design voltage thus a 55 kWh Model 3 might be similar in voltage to an S60.

Pure speculation, but sure, it's possible.

 

[Jeff N]

When and where will CCS and/or CHAdeMO be available at > 125A in North America?

The first public station I've heard of so far is the 4 car EVgo station being installed in Baker between LA and Las Vegas. It is scheduled to be open in June.

ChargePoint will begin installing some new 125 kW locations by the 4th quarter of this year that were part of a California Energy Commission state grant program.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I suspect 350-360V is going to be the typical voltage of packs for affordable EVs. Most out there now are in that range and it seems reasonable the M3 will be similar.

Actually, most modern cars are 96 cells in series, which is 400v maximum, plus or minus 5v.


99s / 416v max - Roadster
96s / 400v max - Tesla 85-90-100kWh cars, NIssan LEAF, BMW i3, Kia Soul EV, Chevy Volt & Bolt EV,
92s / 386v max - 2012-2014 RAV4 EV
88s / 379v max - Smart ED, VW eGolf
84s / 354v max - Tesla 40-60-70-75kWh cars, Mercedes B-Class ED / B250e

The Ioniq and Chevy Bolt EV probably share the same 65ah LG-Chem cells; 288 in the Bolt, ??? in the Ioniq

 

[scaesare]

The Model S/X 75 KWh pack is still only 350V. The voltage of the pack is determined by the number of modules which are in series. Each module is around 25V. 14X25V = 350V and 16X25V = 400V. We know the Model 3 layout from the reveal showed 8 modules, which may be 40V each and would give a pack voltage of 360V. It's possible the larger pack version will have a 9th module to get to 400V, or they may all have just 8 modules. If all have 8 modules, that would mean the best voltage for the M3 is 360V.

I suspect 350-360V is going to be the typical voltage of packs for affordable EVs. Most out there now are in that range and it seems reasonable the M3 will be similar.

A module need not be ~25 volts. The actual layout for the S/X packs is 96 groups of cells (either ranging from 64-88 depending on pack models) in series. It just so happens that Tesla currently packs 6 of those groups in to a single brick that we call a "module" that results in ~25 volts.

But there's no reason with a different form factor it couldn't be 8-12 cell-groups in series within a module, rather than 6. The physical size of the module and the desired current would be considerations.

 

[Jeff N]

The Ioniq and Chevy Bolt EV probably share the same 65ah LG-Chem cells; 288 in the Bolt, ??? in the Ioniq

Hyundai hasn't released much detail about their Ioniq battery pack but we know the Bolt EV has 288 cells packaged as 96 groups of 3 for a nominal pack voltage of 350v and a capacity of around "60 kWh" (probably a little more).

The math doesn't seem to work for the Ioniq to literally use the same cells as the Bolt EV in order to have a pack with around "28 kWh" of capacity with the published pack voltage of 360v.

 

[Jeff N]

The 69-70 kW charge rate I've seen photos or videos of for the Soul EV and Ioniq reached that rate at around 66-76% state of charge so the charging voltage was likely around 390-400v which make the current be around 175-180a.

I doubt that VERY seriously. Not even a Tesla 100D is banging out 175-180a at 400v !!!
....
70kW / 200a = 350 volts
72kW / 200a = 360 volts (I doubt the Ioniq charges faster than this)

The 69.2 kW at "80%" implies a charging voltage of somewhere around 390v and 175A.

All evidence I've seen and heard points to a peak current of around 150a for the Bolt EV.

There's zero evidence of that. There's circumstantial statements, like the reference to "80kW" in the owner's manual. I suspect that this is the charger placard for some mythical 200a * 400v charger that doesn't currently exist.

The 150A comes from a 1:1 personal interview with a senior GM manager working on the Bolt EV program. Of course, he could be wrong. We shall soon find out. It's also consistent with Electrek's recent Bolt EV review which said the peak charging rate was 55 kW.

 

[Az_Rael]

The first public station I've heard of so far is the 4 car EVgo station being installed in Baker between LA and Las Vegas. It is scheduled to be open in June.

ChargePoint will begin installing some new 125 kW locations by the 4th quarter of this year that were part of a California Energy Commission state grant program.

Some test units just opened up in Fremont (or are close to opening) Not open to the public, but intended for testing, I believe.

The first ‘High-Power fast-charging station’ (150-350 kW) is installed by EVgo and ABB right in Tesla’s backyard

 

[TonyWilliams]

The 69.2 kW at "80%" implies a charging voltage of somewhere around 390v and 175A.

It could also imply many other values.

The 150A comes from a 1:1 personal interview with a senior GM manager working on the Bolt EV program. Of course, he could be wrong. We shall soon find out. It's also consistent with Electrek's recent Bolt EV review which said the peak charging rate was 55 kW.

We must have had this exchange on previously? All the speculation will end soon.

 

[transpondster]

The 69.2 kW at "80%" implies a charging voltage of somewhere around 390v and 175A.


The 150A comes from a 1:1 personal interview with a senior GM manager working on the Bolt EV program. Of course, he could be wrong. We shall soon find out. It's also consistent with Electrek's recent Bolt EV review which said the peak charging rate was 55 kW.

I suggest for your to review video, 100% on station are 94% in car, so 80 probably means 75%

 

[Jeff N]

I suggest for your to review video, 100% on station are 94% in car, so 80 probably means 75%

True, but that's consistent with what I originally said and it's consistent with roughly 390v charging voltage that I originally mentioned. At that user 75-80% the Ioniq was still charging at 69 kW while an S85 might be drawing less than 50 kW with a much bigger battery. Hyundai is being pretty aggressive at charging at higher states of charge -- the opposite of GM which is being very conservative.

 

[transpondster]

seems high power cells have less agrresive taper off, compared to high energy cells (Tesla, Bolt) which start at 55-60%, but at that point they have more or same energity than small packs at 80%. If Bolt gets fix for at least 160 A at lower SOC it will be better that Ioniq with its 200A

 

[RubberToe]

January Sales: 1,162
February Sales: 952

The Volt, Model S, Leaf and Model X all had increases.

 

[Ulmo]

January Sales: 1,162
February Sales: 952

The Volt, Model S, Leaf and Model X all had increases.

Is that of the Bolt? That's crazy! I've seen a dozen already in my driving areas; they must be way over-represented where I go.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Is that of the Bolt? That's crazy! I've seen a dozen already in my driving areas; they must be way over-represented where I go.

Here is a source article i found. Chevy Bolt EV deliveries are surprisingly down to 952 units in the US last month

 

[wdolson]

They're focusing early sales in California and other CARB states. I haven't seen a single Bolt. I just checked Chevy's website and there is a handful of Bolt's in Portland, but none on this side of the Columbia (in Washington state).

 

[TEG]

One of my neighbors got a Bolt, and I see one at our office... Both of them white. They are starting to show up in SF bay area now.

I applaud GM for getting this vehicle out there. I never warmed up to the Volt because it drags around that gasoline tank & engine. At least we have a true useful ZEV / EV from GM now, even if it seems to be in limited markets so far. The Spark EV is too small and range limited to have mass appeal. The Bolt seems a lot more compelling.

 

[TonyWilliams]

They're focusing early sales in California and other CARB states. I haven't seen a single Bolt. I just checked Chevy's website and there is a handful of Bolt's in Portland, but none on this side of the Columbia (in Washington state).

Washington is a CARB state... it's not a CARB-ZEV state.

CARB states - Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, District of Columbia.

CARB-Zero Emission Vehicle states - California’s ZEV program has now been adopted by the states of Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and Maine. These states, known as the “Section 177 states,” have chosen to adopt California's air quality standards in lieu of federal requirements as authorized under Section 177 of the federal Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. sec. 7507).

Additionally, California’s GHG standards are now spelled out federal law. Washington DC and New Jersey are participating with ZEV initiatives, but are not signatory CARB-ZEV states.

 

[AndY1]

Here is a source article i found. Chevy Bolt EV deliveries are surprisingly down to 952 units in the US last month

February had less workdays (10%) to be sold than January.

 

[trils0n]

Had my first sighting of a Bolt in the wild yesterday, and saw 2 today. Was wondering when I'd start seeing them.

1st sighting was at a 3 way intersection. I was behind two i3s, and another Model S. Coming from my left was the Bolt, followed by a Model X, and Model S. The right was a Model S, a Volt, and a Leaf. Made me chuckle at the density of EVs at that one intersection.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

That is just too cool. What part of the continent are you. I wonder when gas stations will actually start to see a slow drop in sales. Sooner or later it has to happen.

We don't have much of an ev penetration in our small Canadian truck town, but we have a CHADEMO and half a dozen level 2's. I doubt there are more than two dozen EV's in a town of 50,000 people, but two of them are ours and the gas stations in this town are not getting any of our cash. I look forward to the day when I can see an EV at all four entrances to an intersection.