Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[EinSV]

Compliance car? See Clarity Electric and Ioniq Electric. And Focus Electric. And Fiat 500e. All perfect examples.
The Bolt continues to be the only 200+ mile, <$40k BEV on the market available in all 50 states. Someday another car will join it.

GM sold only 5650 Bolts in the U.S. through April (we'll have numbers for May shortly) and is refusing to sell the car in sufficient quantities in places where there is demand for it like Europe and parts of Canada.

So far, the Bolt is a massive failure in terms of the transition from ICE to EVs. It is a compliance and PR vehicle.

 

[scaesare]

Compliance car? See Clarity Electric and Ioniq Electric. And Focus Electric. And Fiat 500e. All perfect examples.
The Bolt continues to be the only 200+ mile, <$40k BEV on the market available in all 50 states. Someday another car will join it.

While Chevy hasn't restricted the Bolt to just "compliance states", it's also may mean that there are states with one or two in the back of some dealer lots.

Green Car Reports in their article referred to it as a "low volume or specialty car":

Volume or specialty car

The Nissan Leaf, still the highest-selling electric car in the world after seven years, is available as a standard part of Nissan's product line at most dealers—and the same applies to the Bolt EV and Volt at roughly two-thirds of Chevy dealers.

Sales of both cars are clustered in certain areas, though, so while dealers may have one car on the lot, the Leaf or Volt may not be a high-volume item for some dealers.

In lightly populated regions and states with no incentives for plug-in cars, a car that plugs in is likely to be viewed by dealers as a specialty car more akin to a GT-R or a Corvette than a volume car.

Still, you can get a Leaf or a Volt or a Bolt EV from at least one dealer in all 50 states.

Unfortunate, I'd like to see GM put some real effort behind pushing the Bolt.

 

[bro1999]

So far, the Bolt is a massive failure in terms of the transition from ICE to EVs. It is a compliance and PR vehicle.

It also outsold the Model X last year. Does that mean the Model X (and everything below it) is a massive failure/compliance+PR car too?
edit: and it's outsold the Model X this year so far too.

 

[EinSV]

It also outsold the Model X last year. Does that mean the Model X (and everything below it) is a massive failure/compliance+PR car too?
edit: and it's outsold the Model X this year so far too.

Sadly, that's false.

Tesla sold 46,535 Model X worldwide in 2017. Tesla Model X - Wikipedia

Chevy sold 25K Bolts in the U.S. and Canada in 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Sales Numbers and 600 in S. Korea. Probably about 30K total including European sales, so less than the X.

Considering the vast price difference between the two (~$100K v. ~$40K), the Bolt would have to sell at least 10 times more than the X to be considered remotely comparable. You know, more like the Model 3 when it ramps up to 500K+/year.

Edit: Apparently there were only 1918 Ampera-e sales in Europe in 2017. Opel Ampera-e EV European sales figures
So about 28K total Bolt/Ampera-e worldwide.

 

[scaesare]

It also outsold the Model X last year. Does that mean the Model X (and everything below it) is a massive failure/compliance+PR car too?
edit: and it's outsold the Model X this year so far too.

As @EinSV states, that's certainly not true globally.

And if just talking the US, even that's not true according to Clean Technica:

The X alone appears to have sold more than the Bolt in the US. Not bad for a SUV costing 3X as much as a hatchback.

 

[bro1999]

Sadly, that's false.

Tesla sold 46,535 Model X worldwide in 2017. Tesla Model X - Wikipedia

Chevy sold 25K Bolts in the U.S. and Canada in 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Sales Numbers and 600 in S. Korea. Probably about 30K total including European sales, so less than the X.

Considering the vast price difference between the two (~$100K v. ~$40K), the Bolt would have to sell at least 10 times more than the X to be considered remotely comparable. You know, more like the Model 3 when it ramps up to 500K+/year.

Edit: Apparently there were only 1918 Ampera-e sales in Europe in 2017. Opel Ampera-e EV European sales figures
So about 28K total Bolt/Ampera-e worldwide.

I don't care about the rest of the world. In that case, the Nissan Leaf stomps everyone else.
I'm talking about US sales. Frankly, your belief that the Bolt is a compliance car shows how little you actually know. GM could actually stop selling the Bolt today and they'd be all set with ZEV credits for the next few years, if all they cared about was meeting compliance numbers. Someone did the math and figured GM only needed to sell less than 2,000 Bolts last year to meet compliance requirements. But they sold another 21,000 by mistake I guess?

Keep believing the Bolt is a compliance car. You're probably one of the people that believes the media is out to get Tesla too.

 

[ai4px]

Since I own both a Bolt and a MS, I frequent forums like this for bolt and tesla. I watch both sides nit picking. It really is just like the rednecks at work arguing about GM or Ford being a better truck. Never mind the fact that a local ford dealer was giving away a puppy with each purchase so you wouldn't have to walk home alone, or that Ford comes with a heated tailgate cover so you hands don't get cold while pushing it. But I digress....
The Bolt is a fine car for a lot of families. I'm not sure why GM isn't pushing it... I have yet to see an advert for it on TV.
Any car Tesla makes is a really nice car, but out of reach for many families.

In all honesty, you know what Tesla has going for it? PR. When we only had the Bolt people would ask if it went faster than 35 - the public perception is "golf cart". Did it go more than 60 miles? Now that we have a Tesla, I get thumbs up at stop lights and people ask if that's self driving or asking just how fast it will do 0-60. You know what? Both cars take me >200 miles and cost me about 3c/mile to drive. Both are great and each has an entirely different target demographic.

 

[seattlite2004]

Isn't GM taking a loss on each Bolt? Maybe they are limiting production until they can reduce their unit cost and lower their losses?

 

[EinSV]

I don't care about the rest of the world. In that case, the Nissan Leaf stomps everyone else.
I'm talking about US sales. Frankly, your belief that the Bolt is a compliance car shows how little you actually know. GM could actually stop selling the Bolt today and they'd be all set with ZEV credits for the next few years, if all they cared about was meeting compliance numbers. Someone did the math and figured GM only needed to sell less than 2,000 Bolts last year to meet compliance requirements. But they sold another 21,000 by mistake I guess?

Keep believing the Bolt is a compliance car. You're probably one of the people that believes the media is out to get Tesla too.

Funny you don't care about the rest of the world. In a couple years GM will be touting its increased EV sales, but the vast majority of its EVs will be sold in China and only because the Chinese government is forcing manufacturers to sell EVs. In the meantime, GM apparently shares your attitude, which is not doing much for promoting adoption of EVs and reducing GHG emissions.

As far as the U.S., the Bolt's sales so far have been dismal. Partly this is due to limitations of the car itself, but there also have been plenty of anecdotal reports of dealers' lack of enthusiasm in selling the cars. Apparently there is only one Bolt in inventory for every two dealers who sell them, which doesn't help. GM's Electric Bolt Slows While Tesla Model 3 Sales Pick Up Speed Doesn't seem like GM or its dealers are very interested in pushing sales of the Bolt. Big surprise.

 

[McRat]

While Model 3s are being delivered by the thousands to new owners in Canada, GM is dragging its heels on Canadian deliveries with delays of up to a year. Chevy Bolt EVs backordered by up to a year in Canada

Together with dismal deliveries in the U.S. year-to-date and GM's refusal to ship in quantity to Europe, I don't think the Bolt's status as a compliance car status can be seriously questioned.

Sure as hell beats my 26 month since order, 10 month since production delay for my Model 3.

You might get Model 3's in Canada, but we don't get them in California. Maybe 1 out of 10 pre-orders have been invited for the 3LR PUP out here far away from the Tesla factory. But we are promised California will get the cars first, so hope springs eternal. I just saw my second one yesterday, and I drive where Model S/Xs are thick.

Bolts have averaged about 175 units in Canada per month. April was 171. It's not a big market for them, and IIRC, there is a Canada specific recall on wiper motors that has no solution yet.

 

[bro1999]

Isn't GM taking a loss on each Bolt? Maybe they are limiting production until they can reduce their unit cost and lower their losses?

Since Mary Barra said she expects GM be able to sell EVs at a profit by 2021, it's likely they are losing some money on each Bolt sale (before any ZEV credit calcs), or breaking even. I think it should be pretty obvious that the Bolt is merely a stepping stone to GM's ultimate goal of going all-electric. The Bolt as a car was never going to be a high volume seller. But GM definitely has big plans for the Bolt as a platform.
Like I said elsewhere, slow and steady will win the race.
Perhaps Tesla's fast and furious will work out for them in the end too. Hopefully, as if Tesla goes belly up that would set back EVs as a whole tremendously.

 

[scaesare]

...GM's ultimate goal of going all-electric.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[scottf200]

Unpacking The CARB Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate

"During this same time period, General Motors had an excess of TZEV credits due to years of strong Volt sales. They transferred 6,000 TZEV credits to Honda, who provided GM with 2,500 BEV credits and 12,700 Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) credits (that have been depreciated in value)."

"With 13,487 California Bolt sales in 2017, GM earned over 52,000 ZEV credits, far beyond the approximately 9,500 credits they will need for 2018. "

I would be GM hires people to do the math and forecasting for their ZEV credits to minimize the sales and maximize the credits / benefits.

 

[bro1999]

Do you have a source for this?

GM’s Path to an All-Electric, Zero Emissions Future
General Motors Is Going All Electric

 

[McRat]

Unpacking The CARB Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate

"During this same time period, General Motors had an excess of TZEV credits due to years of strong Volt sales. They transferred 6,000 TZEV credits to Honda, who provided GM with 2,500 BEV credits and 12,700 Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) credits (that have been depreciated in value)."

"With 13,487 California Bolt sales in 2017, GM earned over 52,000 ZEV credits, far beyond the approximately 9,500 credits they will need for 2018. "

I would be GM hires people to do the math and forecasting for their ZEV credits to minimize the sales and maximize the credits / benefits.

Look how high Toyota is. They sold extremely few true ZEVs (H2/BEV), and their PiP was a joke. Even their latest effort is less than a 1/2 effort.

Lobbying pays better than fixing your 17 mpg pickup and SUVs (Tundra/LandCruiser/Sequoia). GM and Ford saved more fuel by investing high mileage tech for their large vehicles than all the Toyota hybrids combined.

Even Subaru scored more ZEV points and they have no ZEV fleet. Mercedes even has a high score, but BMW doesn't.

 

[EinSV]

Sure as hell beats my 26 month since order, 10 month since production delay for my Model 3.

You might get Model 3's in Canada, but we don't get them in California. Maybe 1 out of 10 pre-orders have been invited for the 3LR PUP out here far away from the Tesla factory. But we are promised California will get the cars first, so hope springs eternal. I just saw my second one yesterday, and I drive where Model S/Xs are thick. <snip>

McRat, your California numbers are all wrong. I don't have time to fix them for you right now but bottom line is that even in Q1 Model 3 sales in California already was the best selling car in its class, beating BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class. Tesla Model 3 sales beat BMW 3-Series and Mercedes C-Class during first quarter in California, says report

I already saw three before I got to work this morning (red, blue, silver) and look forward to getting mine in July.

 

[bro1999]

McRat, your California numbers are all wrong. I don't have time to fix them for you right now but bottom line is that even in Q1 Model 3 sales in California already was the best selling car in its class, beating BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class. Tesla Model 3 sales beat BMW 3-Series and Mercedes C-Class during first quarter in California, says report

I already saw three before I got to work this morning (red, blue, silver) and look forward to getting mine in July.

Speaking of best selling cars in CA: Chevy Bolt #1 Selling Electric Car In CA In 2017, Beating Tesla Model S

 

[alloverx]

When the electric Buick(s) are available next year we shall see if GM has the cost down. Note that LG were happy to make the parts under GM design so they could have the expertise in-house. i.e. GM gets cheaper battery, LG gets more work/expertise.

 

[McRat]

McRat, your California numbers are all wrong. I don't have time to fix them for you right now but bottom line is that even in Q1 Model 3 sales in California already was the best selling car in its class, beating BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class. Tesla Model 3 sales beat BMW 3-Series and Mercedes C-Class during first quarter in California, says report

I already saw three before I got to work this morning (red, blue, silver) and look forward to getting mine in July.

If your class is $35k-$50k four doors, then not really.

The Bay Area must have a lot more Model 3's than down here. I'll see a dozen or more MS/X's.

BMW sells an extremely diverse lineup of 4 doors:

X1, X3, X4 (looks similar to Model 3), 3-series, 4-series, and the i3, all are 4 doors in that price area.

Just the X3 sold over 18,000 so far this year.

 

[scottf200]

Look how high Toyota is. They sold extremely few true ZEVs (H2/BEV), and their PiP was a joke. Even their latest effort is less than a 1/2 effort.

You do realize that Toyota has the 2nd best selling *EV right? You also realize they definitely know how to mass produce vehicles.

Nice redirection from what GM is doing and why they are not working hard to push and sell large volumes.

P.S. GM and Ford were forced to get better mileage Gas prices were down. They didn't do it because they felt it was a good thing to do