Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[bro1999]

So, what happened with all that demand ?
How do you explain that Bolt sales in 2018 not only lagging behind every single Tesla model, but even behind the good old hybrid Volt ???

Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard

First, the Volt is a plug-in hybrid, not a hybrid. Get your terminology correct. A true "hybrid" is a plain old Prius.
2nd, like I'm pretty sure I've stated before, GM has been focusing on selling the Bolt in other markets the first half of this year (see the Bolt breaking Korean plug-in sales records this year). Demand is still there, but supply has not been.
Now that GM is cranking out the '19s and have seeming fixed one of the most visible complaints (front seats), we should see Bolt sales trend upwards the rest of the year. Especially since GM is increasing production 20% in Q4. It's fairly obvious GM is trying to delay triggering the tax credit phase out as long as possible, just as Tesla did.

 

[ZsoZso]

First, the Volt is a plug-in hybrid, not a hybrid. Get your terminology correct. A true "hybrid" is a plain old Prius.

I do not care about the Toyota brain-washing to call a 100% gasoline powered car "hybrid". If one cannot input electrons into the car, then it is not a hybrid in my book, its just an ICE with a fuel-saving feature. The true hybrids start at what you like to call plug-in hybrid. I do not see the point of adding made-up marketing names to terminology, such as EREV and REX and whatever. I like to keep it simple: there are ICE, hybrid and EV.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

First, the Volt is a plug-in hybrid, not a hybrid. Get your terminology correct. A true "hybrid" is a plain old Prius.
2nd, like I'm pretty sure I've stated before, GM has been focusing on selling the Bolt in other markets the first half of this year (see the Bolt breaking Korean plug-in sales records this year). Demand is still there, but supply has not been.
Now that GM is cranking out the '19s and have seeming fixed one of the most visible complaints (front seats), we should see Bolt sales trend upwards the rest of the year. Especially since GM is increasing production 20% in Q4. It's fairly obvious GM is trying to delay triggering the tax credit phase out as long as possible, just as Tesla did.

Touchy. The Volt's a hybrid. It's a plug-in hybrid, but it's a hybrid. Especially the Gen 2, in which they changed the transmission design in a way that made it more easily used in other non-plugin hybrids.

Ironically, however, the 2019 Volt is now actually getting into proper* EREV territory through the ERDTT temperature drop** and available/premium 7.2kW charger. Given that no other manufacturer seems to be trying to match the Volt, we could end up getting a 2019+ Volt to beat the tax credit limit + crossoverification*** + any-but-China's-our-biggest-market-so-of-course-we-manufacture-it-there-bs**** .

Back to the Bolt: not a lot + 20% x not a lot is still not a lot. There are waiting lists for BEVs all over the place and it's going to continue for a while. As with cars from many manufacturers, the Bolt is just a stepping stone into an unknown next generation which can only come after all the next generation battery factories has been built.

* i.e. not GM's "heating doesn't matter" definition
** obviously they've solved the windshield defogging "problem"
*** signaled by the Buick Velite 6
**** it still isn't yet for Voltec.

 

[bro1999]

Touchy. The Volt's a hybrid. It's a plug-in hybrid, but it's a hybrid. Especially the Gen 2, in which they changed the transmission design in a way that made it more easily used in other non-plugin hybrids.

Ironically, however, the 2019 Volt is now actually getting into proper* EREV territory through the ERDTT temperature drop** and available/premium 7.2kW charger. Given that no other manufacturer seems to be trying to match the Volt, we could end up getting a 2019+ Volt to beat the tax credit limit + crossoverification*** + any-but-China's-our-biggest-market-so-of-course-we-manufacture-it-there-bs**** .

Back to the Bolt: not a lot + 20% x not a lot is still not a lot. There are waiting lists for BEVs all over the place and it's going to continue for a while. As with cars from many manufacturers, the Bolt is just a stepping stone into an unknown next generation which can only come after all the next generation battery factories has been built.

* i.e. not GM's "heating doesn't matter" definition
** obviously they've solved the windshield defogging "problem"
*** signaled by the Buick Velite 6
**** it still isn't yet for Voltec.

Whelp, GM certainly isn't standing still WRT their EV future Mary Barra said would eventually happen. This new fast charging ability mentioned (180 miles in 10 minutes) will make Supercharger charging rates look slow.
GM’s Mary Barra outlines EV plans as LG Electronics plant prepares to come online

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Whelp, GM certainly isn't standing still WRT their EV future Mary Barra said would eventually happen. This new fast charging ability mentioned (180 miles in 10 minutes) will make Supercharger charging rates look slow.
GM’s Mary Barra outlines EV plans as LG Electronics plant prepares to come online

Today's Superchargers...but those GM supported chargers aren't due out for around 5 years...

 

[seattlite2004]

I for one dont really care about how many Bolts get sold...why should I?

Now...I do care how many Teslas get sold..cuz its their only product line unlike other car manufacturers...so obviously Tesla NEEDS to sell EVs...but GM and other car manufacturers at present... do not. Slow Bolt sales will benefit the buyer with more incentives thus lower pricing....so yeah...as a buyer...I'd want slow Bolt sales cuz I'll be able to get a top loaded Premier trim Bolt for $35-$36K (~$30K after fed)....probably without any haggling.

 

[electricar]

The Bolt seems like a nice car; the problem would be having to look at it in the garage everyday. Styling is a very important factor in the buying decision ( it certainly was a huge part of mine ). The styling of a car goes a long way toward making it an " object of desire ". As Ralph Lauren says a car is thought of by its owner as their final piece of attire and should reflect who they are or aspire to be. That is why Franz von Holzhausen is one of Tesla's most critical employees. GM is capable of making stunning cars; the styling of the Bolt is an indication that they still think of EVs as fringe products.

 

[seattlite2004]

The Bolt seems like a nice car; the problem would be having to look at it in the garage everyday. Styling is a very important factor in the buying decision ( it certainly was a huge part of mine ). The styling of a car goes a long way toward making it an " object of desire ". As Ralph Lauren says a car is thought of by its owner as their final piece of attire and should reflect who they are or aspire to be. That is why Franz von Holzhausen is one of Tesla's most critical employees. GM is capable of making stunning cars; the styling of the Bolt is an indication that they still think of EVs as fringe products.

Pricing dictates my "objects of desire"...otherwise I'd have only supercars in my garage.

 

[electricar]

Pricing dictates my "objects of desire"...otherwise I'd have only supercars in my garage.

Anyone can build a beautiful supercar - building a beautiful mass market car takes genius.

 

[bro1999]

The Bolt seems like a nice car; the problem would be having to look at it in the garage everyday. Styling is a very important factor in the buying decision ( it certainly was a huge part of mine ). The styling of a car goes a long way toward making it an " object of desire ". As Ralph Lauren says a car is thought of by its owner as their final piece of attire and should reflect who they are or aspire to be. That is why Franz von Holzhausen is one of Tesla's most critical employees. GM is capable of making stunning cars; the styling of the Bolt is an indication that they still think of EVs as fringe products.

I measured my garage...literally, a Model S (what I toyed with getting before getting the Bolt) wouldn't even fit in my garage. Ok, it would juuust fit, as long as I didn't mind having to climb out of the windows/hatch to get out every time I parked in the garage. That and have the side mirrors ripped off.

 

[Saghost]

I measured my garage...literally, a Model S (what I toyed with getting before getting the Bolt) wouldn't even fit in my garage. Ok, it would juuust fit, as long as I didn't mind having to climb out of the windows/hatch to get out every time I parked in the garage. That and have the side mirrors ripped off.

That's what Summon is for - let the car go in and out without you in it, with the mirrors folded.

(If the space is so tight the mirrors won't fit open, I think Summon will probably balk. It likes to have a few inches on each side of the car.)

 

[Jeff N]

Today's Superchargers...but those GM supported chargers aren't due out for around 5 years...

Those Delta Electronics chargers are due in 2020 in a couple of years.

The story around those chargers has been largely misreported by Electrek and the like. They are just 350-400 kW CHAdeMO/CCS chargers that utilize the latest electronic components as far as I can tell. Yawn.

The thing that is really unique about the Delta DOE project is that the chargers will be able to hook up to medium voltage distribution lines without first having to go through a utility transformer to drop the voltage down to 480V. They can also hook up directly to DC stationary battery storage.

I wrote about this recently at my website:
Delta announces new DOE 400 kW charger project

Whelp, GM certainly isn't standing still WRT their EV future Mary Barra said would eventually happen. This new fast charging ability mentioned (180 miles in 10 minutes) will make Supercharger charging rates look slow.
GM’s Mary Barra outlines EV plans as LG Electronics plant prepares to come online

Those GM cars are apparently R&D prototypes without any commitment for commercialization as far as I know. It isn’t clear how this is any different in capability from what Porsche is doing with the Taycan.

Of course GM is going to prototype 800V charging. That’s not surprising.

 

[alloverx]

I guess this GM R&D means they are serious about EVs. Nice.

 

[FlatSix911]

I for one dont really care about how many Bolts get sold...why should I?

Now...I do care how many Teslas get sold..cuz its their only product line unlike other car manufacturers...so obviously Tesla NEEDS to sell EVs...but GM and other car manufacturers at present... do not. Slow Bolt sales will benefit the buyer with more incentives thus lower pricing....so yeah...as a buyer...I'd want slow Bolt sales cuz I'll be able to get a top loaded Premier trim Bolt for $35-$36K (~$30K after fed)....probably without any haggling.

Agreed... here are the current Telsa sales compared to other brands... Tesla Outsold All Of These Brands In U.S. In August

Here we have a list of selected brands that were below or slightly above Tesla in August (U.S.-only):

• Volkswagen – 32,255
• Lexus – 28,622
• Mazda – 25,816
• BMW – 23,789
• Tesla – 23,175
• Audi – 20,907
• Mercedes-Benz – 20,339
• Acura – 15,072
• Chrysler – 12,219
• Infiniti – 10,796
• Volvo – 8,970
• Mitsubishi – 8,416
• Porsche – 4,083
• Jaguar – 2,469

 

[RubberToe]

As seen on Reddit, presented without comment, as none is necessary...

 

[DanCar]

It is comparing apples and oranges in my opinion. What I find funny is that GM saw a threat and tried to compete and thus far has failed miserably, losing thousands on each car sold. Mercedes and others seem to be falling in the same boat.

Tesla is a cool upscale car. Bolt is an economy car that has been electrified, cool, but not in the same category. If you consider leasing, which is what most people have done with EVs then the price difference is more than 2x.

Unfortunately for GM the market is hot for upscale electric cars. Market hasn't taken off for mainstream cars yet.

 

[wdolson]

It is comparing apples and oranges in my opinion. What I find funny is that GM saw a threat and tried to compete and thus far has failed miserably, losing thousands on each car sold. Mercedes and others seem to be falling in the same boat.

Tesla is a cool upscale car. Bolt is an economy car that has been electrified, cool, but not in the same category. If you consider leasing, which is what most people have done with EVs then the price difference is more than 2x.

Unfortunately for GM the market is hot for upscale electric cars. Market hasn't taken off for mainstream cars yet.

Part of that is the way the tax incentive works. It's structured for people with higher than average incomes. That probably works in Tesla's favor somewhat, but it's also how compelling the car is. The Bolt is better looking than most non-Tesla EVs, but it's a sub-compact hatchback. Most people buying those cars in the US are only doing so because they want a new car and don't have the money for anything but the entry level car. Most people with a decent income don't want something that looks like a Yaris or Honda Fit.

The Bolt is basically an $18K car with a $20K drivetrain. As a sub-compact hatch goes, it has nicer features than most, but it's still a very small car.

I saw a documentary a while back on the AMC Pacer. The first year it sold way more than anyone thought it would because there was a segment of the market that liked its unusual looks. But after that sales fell off a cliff and interviews with people involved with the car's development and sales pointed out that everyone who wanted a car like that bought one in its first year and then the market saturated.

I think the Bolt is suffering from the same thing. It has an appeal to a certain demographic who wanted a small, long range EV. Once those people got their Bolt, interest has dried up. At least in the US. If they pushed it in Europe, it would have a chance to sell fairly well. Because of the smaller narrower roads in much of Europe, smaller cars are popular there than in the US. The options for 200 mi+ EVs is very limited right now, but that niche will be filling up soon.

The sedan market in the US is drying up, but the best selling segment for the last couple of decades has been mid-sized sedans (though most are not classified as large by EPA rules, most people still think of them as mid-sized). This segment includes the Camry, Accord, Fusion, Malibu, and a number of other cars. Pretty much every car maker of any volume has a mid-sized sedan in their line up. The Model 3 is right in that niche size-wise and even though it's priced more like a premium mid-sized sedan, it's taking sales from the family sedan market as well as the premium sedan market.

The Model 3 is only a bit more than a fully loaded Camry or Accord and the top end of the family sedan market is cross shopping the Model 3 with their normal sedan choices and finding the Model 3 appealing. It's the type of car style a lot of people who can afford an EV want anyway. SUVs/crossovers are more popular in the US now, and maybe leading with the Model Y would have been even more popular, but the Model 3 is popular enough.

In short, demographically, the Model 3 is the right car for the right market niche, but the Bolt has a limited market appeal. It also helps that Tesla is pushing the Model 3, while the Bolt is undersold by GM. They push their higher profit vehicles like the Silverodo and Yukons.

 

[seattlite2004]

Chevy will sell every Bolt they make... But they don't make that many.

Greatest market appeal for the Bolt....one can pick up the Premier trimmed version for at least $7K off MSRP... So ~$36k. LT trim... For close to ~$30k.

Until the 35k Mod 3 comes along...Chevy will sell every Bolt they make.

 

[Saghost]

Chevy will sell every Bolt they make... But they don't make that many.

Greatest market appeal for the Bolt....one can pick up the Premier trimmed version for at least $7K off MSRP... So ~$36k. LT trim... For close to ~$30k.

Until the 35k Mod 3 comes along...Chevy will sell every Bolt they make.

If there were a lot of people that really wanted the cars, there'd be no 20% off deals. Offering 20% off on a brand new car isn't generally a sign of high demand.

 

[seattlite2004]

If there were a lot of people that really wanted the cars, there'd be no 20% off deals. Offering 20% off on a brand new car isn't generally a sign of high demand.

Not saying they were in "high demand"...I'm saying Chevy will sell every one they'll make.