Teslas are just too expensive. You can get a lot more for your money. What's the big deal to buy gas. Gas in the US is a bargain.
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
I agree. Yugo sold all the cars they made too. If you make the car cheap enough someone will bite.
I calculated the cost per mile for my Model S vs my SO's Subaru Impreza. At current gas prices and electricity prices the Model S is 1/4 the cost per mile. And it requires less maintenance. I don't have to worry about belts, hoses, oil changes, etc. In the two years I've owned my Model S my SO has put around $1000 in maintenance for her Impreza and she only burns a tank of gas a month. The only thing I've paid for other than electricity were a few minor accessories and new tires.
I recommend you quit trying to troll this forum. You will get a few people upset, but you're not going to win any arguments. I don't want to project, but is your life so miserable your only joy comes from ticking other people off?
You know, until I looked at your posting history, I thought this was a joke. But surely you wouldn't try the same stupid joke on three different threads...
seattlite2004
Active Member
Yep...but are they still around? Better comparison is with the Leaf. Leaf's have lots of dealer incentived and there are awesome deals to be had...and Nissan sells every Leaf they make. Lots of low priced EVs out there to scratch that EV itch....just no low priced Teslas....yet.
There's one left...
Used Leafs are dirt cheap. They have depreciated more than most ICE of the same age.
Tesla doesn't have to offer much in the way of incentives because they can sell every car they build and used Teslas hold their value better than most other cars.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
So EVgo has launched a promotional charging plan specific to Bolt owners. 2 different offers seem to have been sent to Bolt EV owners. One is for 500 minutes of free fast charging to be used the next 6 months (in the form of a $150 account credit that expires in March 2019). The other offer I personally received is 10 cents/minute charging for the next 6 months, with $0 monthly fee (normally $10/month). My offer was limited to the first 100 respondents. I'm assuming the other offer also is limited.
Bro1999, to thank you for driving the all-electric Bolt EV, we are offering you a discounted rate of $0.10 per minute of DC Fast Charging for six months through EVgo,® the nation's largest public DC Fast Charging network.
You must redeem this offer no later than 10/18/18 and have a credit card on file. Standard pay-as-you-go rates will be applied to your credit card for charging after the six-month promotional period ends.
This offer is only available to the first 100 registrants. Click the link below to redeem your offer and enter your personalized offer code. You can also learn more about EVgo, DC Fast Charging and find EVgo stations near you.
Offer code: _________
Bro1999, to thank you for driving the all-electric Bolt EV, we are offering you a discounted rate of $0.10 per minute of DC Fast Charging for six months through EVgo,® the nation's largest public DC Fast Charging network.
You must redeem this offer no later than 10/18/18 and have a credit card on file. Standard pay-as-you-go rates will be applied to your credit card for charging after the six-month promotional period ends.
This offer is only available to the first 100 registrants. Click the link below to redeem your offer and enter your personalized offer code. You can also learn more about EVgo, DC Fast Charging and find EVgo stations near you.
Offer code: _________
My new review of the Hyundai Kona EV contrasted with the Chevy Bolt.
Hyundai’s Kona EV one-ups the Chevy Bolt EV, except…
Hyundai’s Kona EV one-ups the Chevy Bolt EV, except…
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Have you really not figured out yet that Nissan matches production to compliance car demand ?
seattlite2004
Active Member
I've found there tends to be a crazy California bias on this forum, which I think makes the Bolt look more attractive than it is.
First, Bolts aren't discounted in Colorado, at all, because they're a ZEV/CARB credit play and we don't do that here. This makes a Bolt only slightly less than an MR RWD Model 3.
Second, the charging infrastructure isn't sufficient outside of the coasts, even with EA. The Bolt will effectively cover 170 miles at 0C at 70MPH. This completely rules out non-70 corridor skiing.
Third, even technically "covered" journeys are much more precarious in the Bolt. Look at Aspen, CO - there are two single nozzle CCS locations with questionable PlugShare records. The SC in Aspen rates 10, and has 8 nozzles. Even when relying purely on highway chargers, the Frisco, CO EA charger will have 4 spots to charge while Silverthorne has 8 and Glenwood has 6.
Fourth, the charging is more expensive. 50kW charging is punishingly expensive on the time-based EA network. Better hope your battery isn't too cold to accept a full 50(!)kW.
Fifth, there are places the Bolt can't go even in perfect weather and assuming all EA chargers are working. Can't do Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, or Mesa Verde NP in a Bolt, no problem in an LR M3.
So yeah, the Bolt is awesome if you're doodling around in the Bay Area like half of this forum. For those of us in flyover country they're not comparable.
First, Bolts aren't discounted in Colorado, at all, because they're a ZEV/CARB credit play and we don't do that here. This makes a Bolt only slightly less than an MR RWD Model 3.
Second, the charging infrastructure isn't sufficient outside of the coasts, even with EA. The Bolt will effectively cover 170 miles at 0C at 70MPH. This completely rules out non-70 corridor skiing.
Third, even technically "covered" journeys are much more precarious in the Bolt. Look at Aspen, CO - there are two single nozzle CCS locations with questionable PlugShare records. The SC in Aspen rates 10, and has 8 nozzles. Even when relying purely on highway chargers, the Frisco, CO EA charger will have 4 spots to charge while Silverthorne has 8 and Glenwood has 6.
Fourth, the charging is more expensive. 50kW charging is punishingly expensive on the time-based EA network. Better hope your battery isn't too cold to accept a full 50(!)kW.
Fifth, there are places the Bolt can't go even in perfect weather and assuming all EA chargers are working. Can't do Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, or Mesa Verde NP in a Bolt, no problem in an LR M3.
So yeah, the Bolt is awesome if you're doodling around in the Bay Area like half of this forum. For those of us in flyover country they're not comparable.
I’m not familiar enough with the area or regional skiing locations to comment on this.
The 2 single CCS chargers a few blocks from each other in Aspen are both rated “10” on PlugShare. There is a third CCS charger just outside of Aspen with an “8.2” rating that has fewer check-ins but appears to be working. By next summer there should also be an EA location in Glenwood Springs.
So the solution is to buy a more expensive car upfront? This will presumably change when the standard range Model 3 becomes available next year. In any case, charging a Bolt at today’s EA prices is not much different from driving a gasoline car which people do all the time. Presumably most of the time they are charging at home. Once EA has their smartphone app in the first part of next year it’s possible they will introduce subscription pricing which could lower costs for drivers who travel often.
Yellowstone and Grand Canyon will be reachable from “first cycle” EA sites scheduled to be built by next summer but not yet operational. The site in Dell, Montana looks close to being online and it’s about 145 miles from Old Faithful. There is J1772 AC charging in West Yellowstone hotels and at a few places in the park. Similar story for the Grand Canyon.
Mesa Verde might require an extended lunch or overnight stop at one of the towns/hotels with 240V AC charging. We should soon see EA’s planned “second cycle” route extensions which would be installed between July 2019 and late 2021.
That’s completely true today. It will be a lot better next year but certainly not as good as the Supercharger network. On the other hand, it will continue getting better and by next year there will be many options for places to visit on vacation road trips.
Even during the past 1-2 years, I’ve made pretty easy trips to Moab, Utah, Seattle Washington , Edmonton, Alberta, and San Diego from my home base in the San Francisco Bay Area with a little planning.
Although Tesla has an excellent Supercharger network it is going to be stressed by all of the cars they are now churning out at high volume. Meanwhile, there will be many fewer Bolts and other CCS-using cars traveling the highways next year or the year after that. Just as with the early Supercharger rollouts, the goal should be to spread EA and other CHAdeMO/CCS sites around for good coverage with 4-6 stalls each and then scale up the number of charging stalls at each site later.
I guess I just don't agree that jacking some juice from a friendly hotel in Yellowstone is a good solution. What if the chargers are occupied? What if you need a full charge but don't have half a day to charge at 7kW? 145 miles would be very much cutting it close to max Bolt range at freezing temps. And I don't do RV parks or unnecessary hotel stays, so Mesa Verde is out for me too.
If I'm paying gasoline prices and waiting forever for a 50kW charge, it makes an EV even harder to justify taking on trips since I have a gas car.
As an experienced Leaf owner I've learned NOT to trust single nozzle stations. My wife is a sweet woman but I know it annoys her when we pull into an EVgo spot that's taken and we need to wait, and we're not doing that anymore. EA stations are hardly better since, as I noted above, since they are almost all 4-5 car stations. The Pitkin county single nozzle stations are 50kW, too, so forget reasonably fast DCFC.
Trust me, I get it, you technically can scrape by nearly anywhere with a mobile L2 and a backpack full of NEMA adapters. I'm done with that, personally. This will be EV number 4 for my family and my first Tesla.
I guess we can speculate about how full rural chargers will get, but I'm not aware of anyone getting turned away, ever, at Lander, WY or Poncha Springs, CO.
If I'm paying gasoline prices and waiting forever for a 50kW charge, it makes an EV even harder to justify taking on trips since I have a gas car.
As an experienced Leaf owner I've learned NOT to trust single nozzle stations. My wife is a sweet woman but I know it annoys her when we pull into an EVgo spot that's taken and we need to wait, and we're not doing that anymore. EA stations are hardly better since, as I noted above, since they are almost all 4-5 car stations. The Pitkin county single nozzle stations are 50kW, too, so forget reasonably fast DCFC.
Trust me, I get it, you technically can scrape by nearly anywhere with a mobile L2 and a backpack full of NEMA adapters. I'm done with that, personally. This will be EV number 4 for my family and my first Tesla.
I guess we can speculate about how full rural chargers will get, but I'm not aware of anyone getting turned away, ever, at Lander, WY or Poncha Springs, CO.
I was assuming that someone visiting would probably stay over at least one night at a hotel with charging. If you were just zipping in to watch old faithful go off, eat an ice cream cone from a park food vendor, and then driving off that would be a problem.
Waiting forever? A bit of an exaggeration. But sure, it can be more of a hassle if you are traveling with other impatient people in a rush.
I agree that’s a higher risk with single or even dual charger locations. If a charger fails at a single charger location that’s a much bigger problem than at a 4 or 8 charger location. Other than failures, it’s a scaling problem — chargers vs cars. The Supercharger locations we’ve been talking about are mostly 8-stall locations although Glenwood Springs is 6. The EA highway locations always have at least 4. Yet, there are far more than twice as many Teslas vs other long-range CCS cars. Yet the CCS cars will tend to charge slower in the next few years. Yet the Superchargers do power splitting between adjacent stalls while EA stations don’t. It’s complex.
Congrats!
There is no Supercharger at Lander, WY. The one at Poncha Springs, CO has only been open for about 8 months.
I suspect both Tesla Superchargers and Electrify America and other CCS/CHAdeMO charging providers are going to be struggling to keep a good balance between charging infrastructure and EV deliveries to customers. We’re going through the earliest stages of a revolutionary transition. It’s exciting. There will be rough edges. There will be new business models and opportunities much like gas cars brought about gas stations, motor lodges, and McDonald’s. I’m looking forward to it!
At Yellowstone, most people will stay overnight somewhere, but not necessarily at a location that would have charging. We generally like to camp when visiting national parks. In limited instances, it’s possible to book an RV site with power, but typically not. We find it very helpful to have plenty of “on the road” charging options so that we can stay overnight where we want to. Yellowstone in particular has a number of first come first serve campgrounds, but they don’t have power.
What's funny is the ice cream scenario is something I've actually done before - on the way home to Denver from Vancouver, BC, my wife and I decided to detour through Yellowstone on a beautiful day. Having that ICElike flexibility is so cool.
Jeff-
Your posts are typically full of good solid information, and I appreciate that.
However there always seems to be an underlying tone that seems biased, that I wish you could lose.
In your reply, you state a bunch of forwarding looking developments with a positive vibe:
Yet, when mentioning this supercharger, you manage to frame it in what can be read as a negative light (italicized insertion mine):
When talking about what's current, what does it matter how long it's been open? Why even mention that? Regardless if 8 months or 5 years, it's a positive aspect of the Supercharge network that underscores the advantages @more863-also is talking about today.
It feels like your posts are: "Look at all these EA sites hopefully coming, YAY!... boy I sure hope those Superchargers they barely installed in time don't get overwhelmed." (cue sad trombone...)
Your posts are typically full of good solid information, and I appreciate that.
However there always seems to be an underlying tone that seems biased, that I wish you could lose.
In your reply, you state a bunch of forwarding looking developments with a positive vibe:
Yet, when mentioning this supercharger, you manage to frame it in what can be read as a negative light (italicized insertion mine):
When talking about what's current, what does it matter how long it's been open? Why even mention that? Regardless if 8 months or 5 years, it's a positive aspect of the Supercharge network that underscores the advantages @more863-also is talking about today.
It feels like your posts are: "Look at all these EA sites hopefully coming, YAY!... boy I sure hope those Superchargers they barely installed in time don't get overwhelmed." (cue sad trombone...)
I mention it to set the context that all of this DC charging is relatively new. That Supercharger site was 8 months in the past. Most of the currently known EA sites are 8 months in the future. The point being that this is all a moving target. Tesla obviously started installations ~5 years before EA so they have a very usable network now but will be scrambling to scale it as cars are poring out of the Fremont factory at an increasingly rapid pace. EA is working at building coverage with mostly 4-stall sites outside metro areas but compared to Tesla there are relatively few long-range CCS cars on the road that they are catering to and the growth in such cars vs Tesla is going to be much slower for the next several years.
In the next several years, it’s not clear to me that Tesla will have an advantage with congestion at charging sites like the ones we were discussing although Tesla will clearly have more locations and thus better convenience.
What’s wrong with that sentiment? I’m just trying to be realistic. Elon says this is going to be a challenge. I’m not making my statements or estimations out of negativity. I think these are “first world problems” or challenges that come from success.
In some sense, the opposite is true for EA site usability. VW has to put all this EA charging in due to failure (dieselgate) and it may initially scale faster vs the number of CCS cars on the road because of the relatively tentative production commitments from conventional car makers for the next several years.
Above all, EVs and non-urban charging infrastructure is rapidly improving all around and this is important and necessary good news at a time when good news can be scarce. Good news but still fraught with challenges ahead.
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The issue for me is how you seem to place equal weight on proven performance vs. unproven promises, and how you seem to be glossing over a lot of issues with EA.
The biggest issue with EA can be seen easily by oneself: pull up a PlugShare listing and compare the number of listed nozzles with what you see in the photo. Many (all?) of the so-called 7 CCS, 1 CHAdeMO stations can only charge 4 cars simultaneously. This is smaller than the smallest Supercharger locations. Thus, even if CCS vehicles don't take off quickly, crowding will still be a potential issue due to lack of spots.
This is to say nothing of expanding existing charge points. Tesla has a vested interest in making sure overcrowded stations are built out, or that an automated queueing system is developed, whereas VW has every incentive to wash their hands of this boondoggle ASAP.
The Poncha comment was particularly weird considering there is literally no *planned*, let alone existant, non-Tesla infrastructure along the 285 corridor. So what if it's 8 months old? Better than nothing, not even lip service!
Notice how I haven't even gotten into how this network is a huge middle finger to Leaf drivers or vehicles with 50kW CCS charging.
The biggest issue with EA can be seen easily by oneself: pull up a PlugShare listing and compare the number of listed nozzles with what you see in the photo. Many (all?) of the so-called 7 CCS, 1 CHAdeMO stations can only charge 4 cars simultaneously. This is smaller than the smallest Supercharger locations. Thus, even if CCS vehicles don't take off quickly, crowding will still be a potential issue due to lack of spots.
This is to say nothing of expanding existing charge points. Tesla has a vested interest in making sure overcrowded stations are built out, or that an automated queueing system is developed, whereas VW has every incentive to wash their hands of this boondoggle ASAP.
The Poncha comment was particularly weird considering there is literally no *planned*, let alone existant, non-Tesla infrastructure along the 285 corridor. So what if it's 8 months old? Better than nothing, not even lip service!
Notice how I haven't even gotten into how this network is a huge middle finger to Leaf drivers or vehicles with 50kW CCS charging.
Supercharger rural sites with 4 charging stalls were common during the initial Tesla rollout. EA is doing it for the same reason Tesla initially did — build breadth first and then scale up.
VW has no choice but to compete seriously in the EV space. If they don’t then Tesla will eat away at their high-margin sales. It’s already happening. There is no turning back the clock. So, VW has a business interest in making their charging network succeed.
Yes, it is. There are no long-range CHAdeMO cars yet aside from Tesla S and X. The 2018 LEAF is rated at ~150 mile range but that’s a bit tight and it has serious battery heat buildup issues that slow charging on longer trips.
Next year we should see some ~230 mile 2019 LEAFs but will they still use CHAdeMO in the North American market? We don’t know yet and I think there is a non-zero chance they might flip to CCS. Kia and Hyundai have already flipped.
EA is only adding a single CHAdeMO plug at their locations and that is probably a business move against Nissan. More to the point, it’s probably a business move against Tesla to keep their cars from flooding the stalls at EA sites.
The CHAdeMO plug at EA sites is limited to 100 kW power because there are no certified liquid-cooled cables and CHAdeMO connectors yet. Actually, EA says they are limited to 50 kW but that’s a software-imposed limit that will be removed later. EA says it is because there is limited real-world experience with “100 kW” CHAdeMO charging with the equipment.
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