Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[palmer_md]

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A lot of the R&D has come from the Volt which according to them the Gen 2 is profitable.

Is this true? I'm sure they will use some of the Volt knowledge, but my understanding is that they are outsourcing a lot of the components to LG. This may help their profitability, but may not use anything from the volt program. Its hard to tell from the information in the news.

Forget the Chevy Bolt, it will be the LG Bolt s upcoming EV drivetrain | Electrek

I hope the Volt and Bolt continue to succeed in the market. There is plenty of room for more vehicles that have electric drive. The way I see it they are not competing with each other but rather the electric drive is competing with ICE technology. Even if Tesla, Nissan and GM hit their targets for the upcoming vehicles they'll barely tap into 5% of the car market, so there is plenty of room for more, so lets bring them on.

 

[Johan]

I just had this thought...

The Volt was a nice plug-in hybrid, but noe EV. If the Bolt isn't a success then they have one left in the trio that hasn't been announced yet (perhaps third time's the charm?): The Chevy Jolt!

Wouldn't that be a great line-up? The Volt, the Bolt and the Jolt.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I just had this thought...

The Volt was a nice plug-in hybrid, but noe EV. If the Bolt isn't a success then they have one left in the trio that hasn't been announced yet (perhaps third time's the charm?): The Chevy Jolt!

Wouldn't that be a great line-up? The Volt, the Bolt and the Jolt.

There was already criticism that the Bolt name was too similar to Volt and may be a source of confusion (I have seen it happen). I doubt they want another with similar name.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I just had this thought...

The Volt was a nice plug-in hybrid, but noe EV. If the Bolt isn't a success then they have one left in the trio that hasn't been announced yet (perhaps third time's the charm?): The Chevy Jolt!

Wouldn't that be a great line-up? The Volt, the Bolt and the Jolt.

If they fail to market them effectively, they could also try the Dolt.

 

[Johan]

If they fail to market them effectively, they could also try the Dolt.

"Colt" is taken (by Mitsubishi, my mom drives one of those!)

"Molt" according to the dictionary means "periodic shedding of the cuticle in arthropods and the outer skin in reptiles". Maybe not the best name for a car.

 

[gregincal]

Details indeed are forthcoming on both the Bolt and the BEV version of the new Huyndai.

I'm looking at the title of this thread. "200 mile range" and "$30k base price (after incentive)" which I take to mean $37500 base price. Can we at least agree that until the Bolt is unveiled the jury's still out on those metrics?

Sure, but no more than the price and range of the Model 3. At this point all we have to compare is the companies' announced intentions, since neither car is for sale. The Hyundai is hard to comment on because there are zero details.

 

[Johan]

Sure, but no more than the price and range of the Model 3. At this point all we have to compare is the companies' announced intentions, since neither car is for sale. The Hyundai is hard to comment on because there are zero details.

I fully agree with this! My point is there is no reason to put more credibility on the price point or range of the Bolt than on the Model 3. IMO (just opinion) I'd put more credence on Tesla's claims than on GM's, simply based on the fact that Tesla have shown the ability to deliver before.

 

[S'toon]

I would disagree with this premise. Although I have never shorted a stock, I don't think that there is a correlation to selling short and hoping that a company will fail. Often in the market valuations get out of hand or there is just a little to much optimism around short term fundamentals. Shorting would imply that they think a pull back is coming and they will profit from it. There was a time when EM even said that TSLA stock was too rich. From my limited experience, shorting is a bonafide way of making money even in a decline which would be impossible if you were strictly long.

Steve Job's was accused of having a reality distortion field around him..Sometime I think these boards operate the same way in that healthy criticism must be attacked and the poster destroyed. Not healthy in the long run.

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Well in the CARB states I am sure those credits will add to over all profitability. A lot of the R&D has come from the Volt which according to them the Gen 2 is profitable. Why is it so hard to think that they can't build a mid-range electric at a profit, while TSLA can?

They've openly stated they've shorted TSLA.

 

[flankspeed8]

They've openly stated they've shorted TSLA.

your point? Mine was that shorting does not equal "wants the company to fail."

 

[dsm363]

your point? Mine was that shorting does not equal "wants the company to fail."

It doesn't mean they want the company to fail in the long term but they definitely want the stock to tank in specific time period they are placing their bets on.

 

[AnOutsider]

Which doesn't necessarily mean anything nefarious either. Had I been someone who liked to play the stock I would've sold when he who must not be named came along and bought back in when his prophecies came true.

Still think tesla will succeed long term, but I wouldn't have blinked twice at taking advantage of that scenario

 

[wdolson]

I don't think it actually is common sense or knowledge. Tesla / Elon's own "secret plan" blog post, at least to me, suggests that they want to move from premium products "downmarket" to a kind of "everyman/woman" car. Like a Camry or Ford Fusion type of thing. I guess we'll see, and maybe it will be the "Model 4" that makes that leap, but I don't believe there's anything to suggest that Tesla even wants to remain an "exclusive" brand of car.

Direct from Elon's fingers, written several years ago. The whole plan is summed up in a few words at the end:
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-me

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Which doesn't necessarily mean anything nefarious either. Had I been someone who liked to play the stock I would've sold when he who must not be named came along and bought back in when his prophecies came true.

Still think tesla will succeed long term, but I wouldn't have blinked twice at taking advantage of that scenario

This isn't Voldemot we are talking about here!!! It's EDS. EDS!!! Eds who warned of Model X supplier problems and claimed 100 units shipped for 2015.

Then Tesla's slimy lawyers came here and "took him out". But they can't kill his ghost, LOLOL.

 

[stopcrazypp]

This isn't Voldemot we are talking about here!!! It's EDS. EDS!!! Eds who warned of Model X supplier problems and claimed 100 units shipped for 2015.

Then Tesla's slimy lawyers came here and "took him out". But they can't kill his ghost, LOLOL.

I thought he removed his posts of his own volition. Didn't follow thread so don't know. His headline was wrong though (the launch was on time), but his ramp estimate is looking correct (Model X still have not ramped in deliveries). We'll see if a year end rush will happen like last year.

 

[JRP3]

your point? Mine was that shorting does not equal "wants the company to fail."

A short term short position playing the potential volatility of a stock is one thing, spending years spreading FUD about a stock, claiming any vehicle with a plug is "competition", any battery chemistry "better", any charge protocol with "high power" capability written into the standard is "superior", etc., repeated ad nauseam, is another. One should also not ignore the fact that any short benefits greatly if the stock goes to zero. Tftf is one of the better bears, (which shows how weak most of them are), and I'm not suggesting he be stifled at all, but it's important that there is no question about what he is. If he, or any of them, ever come up with a convincing argument, be very very concerned. It's never happened in all the years I've been watching Tesla, but I'm always willing to be convinced.

 

[Discoducky]

Which doesn't necessarily mean anything nefarious either. Had I been someone who liked to play the stock I would've sold when he who must not be named came along and bought back in when his prophecies came true.

Still think tesla will succeed long term, but I wouldn't have blinked twice at taking advantage of that scenario

Same here and...

A short term short position playing the potential volatility of a stock is one thing, spending years spreading FUD about a stock, claiming any vehicle with a plug is "competition", any battery chemistry "better", any charge protocol with "high power" capability written into the standard is "superior", etc., repeated ad nauseam, is another. One should also not ignore the fact that any short benefits greatly if the stock goes to zero. Tftf is one of the better bears, (which shows how weak most of them are), and I'm not suggesting he be stifled at all, but it's important that there is no question about what he is. If he, or any of them, ever come up with a convincing argument, be very very concerned. It's never happened in all the years I've been watching Tesla, but I'm always willing to be convinced.

...and agree as I can be very bullish long term, but bearish in the short...term. I choose not to, simply because I save the money and just wait until it has bottomed...listening to CapOp mostly

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I thought he removed his posts of his own volition. Didn't follow thread so don't know. His headline was wrong though (the launch was on time), but his ramp estimate is looking correct (Model X still have not ramped in deliveries). We'll see if a year end rush will happen like last year.

I distinctly remember that the top post in the infamous thread had its text deleted and there was a message stating something to the effect of "removed at the request of Tesla legal". Someone correct me if my memory is incorrect, but I'm sure that's what I read. Eds deleted their other posts.

Unfortunately for doofus Tesla lawyer, Obi-Wan Kenobi never spoke truer words: "if you Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". Then ghost shows up. I can't wait until the 18th!!!

 

[Krugerrand]

Maybe so, but, does it matter? It's great that a good range EV priced for the masses (relatively speaking) is heading to the market this quickly. I was skeptical about GM's will to go from concept to production but, this turnaround timeframe is nothing short of amazing!

Yes, it matters. It matters that she doesn't get it. It'll matter if she never gets it. Somebody will pay the price. Does that mean EVs won't forge ahead and become mainstream? No. But yes, it matters. (And it'll annoy the crap out of a lot of us when the commercials start showing up on TV and the truth twisting starts to echo in our ears.)

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Yeah, and it actually kind of fits in with Elon's plan. He has always said the goal of Tesla was to spur on adoption of electric vehicles. So how is a little competition and 'trying to be first to market" with an EV even close to a bad thing?

Yeah, never said it was a bad thing.

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... and there was some hope that Musk would install a 100% CEO (or at least install a COO keeping deadlines etc) at Tesla with execution abilities and offload Model3 manufacturing to former partners (Daimler/Toyota).

Huh? Never heard anything along those lines. Ever.

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I agree GM wants the headlines, but I think they will easily sell the Leaf level volumes they are planning. It won't change the product direction of GM completely (or even very much), but it's a good first step. I do hope however they do something major for the CCS charging network and don't repeat the mistakes made here designing the CHAdeMO network (which still is not road trip viable despite more than 1000 chargers).

They totally get points for the first step. Then they give them all back for doing it kicking and screaming. Then they get negative points for trying to be clever (which they will splash all over commercials and ads) and being babies by taking such a gutless (handful of cars) step. :biggrin:

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Why is it so hard to think that they can't build a mid-range electric at a profit, while TSLA can?

For starters: Tesla is using economy of scales with the Gigafactory to drive profit margins for the Model 3. GM isn't doing that and they aren't going to acquire their batteries for Tesla's cost.

 

[wdolson]

I would disagree with this premise. Although I have never shorted a stock, I don't think that there is a correlation to selling short and hoping that a company will fail. Often in the market valuations get out of hand or there is just a little to much optimism around short term fundamentals. Shorting would imply that they think a pull back is coming and they will profit from it. There was a time when EM even said that TSLA stock was too rich. From my limited experience, shorting is a bonafide way of making money even in a decline which would be impossible if you were strictly long.

Steve Job's was accused of having a reality distortion field around him..Sometime I think these boards operate the same way in that healthy criticism must be attacked and the poster destroyed. Not healthy in the long run.

I'm all for healthy criticism. I've participated in my share of it here. But I prefer criticism to be hold together under its own weight. Even an argument that has some gaps, but is generally sound is acceptable.

The push back I see here against tftf is driven not by the criticism, but the poor argument style. People are calling him/her for moving the goal posts, circular reasoning, and assertions that are easily proven wrong. In other words he/she is doing a bad job of making a cogent argument (logical argument, not the screaming and yelling type) and is getting called on that.

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There was already criticism that the Bolt name was too similar to Volt and may be a source of confusion (I have seen it happen). I doubt they want another with similar name.

I ran into that discussing the Bolt with my SO, she corrected me that it was the Volt, not the Bolt and I had to educate her that both exist. She just shook her head in confusion.

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your point? Mine was that shorting does not equal "wants the company to fail."

Or at least wanting the company to take a hit in the short term. Usually people short stocks that they expect will go up in the long term, but are expecting to go down in the short term. If you short a stock, you're still obligated to buy it at some point, so you want it to go up long term so you can sell it again.

 

[Electroman]

TFTF and most of the bears premise is that the global EV market for the foreseeable future is no more than 100-150k per year.

So any fossil company making any fart sounds about anything remotely EV brings waves of orgasams to them, and the cannot fathom why the TSLA longs are unable to comprehend the imminent demise of the company.

So when Hundai makes some vague EV noises, it is like heavenly music to them.

The longs have long realized that the market for an affordable and compelling high range EV is in the millions.