Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[paulkva]

I disagree.
This POV holds true for ICE cars, not so for EVs for at least another decade, not until global battery production is at least 100x bigger than it is.
An EV without a very concrete battery production capacity does not exits in the context of "real car". Everyone can draw pictures and many can built a bunch of prototypes.

Therefore the first thing of a new 'mass EV' I wanna see, is the factory that will be producing the batteries. And it should be big, really big.
Without it, that EV is same as nonexistent.

Right, but my point above is we've seen spy shots of Bolt on the road, and nothing similar yet from Model 3, therefore there's a decent chance Bolt's initial release date will be before Model 3's. I do agree with you (as noted in later points in my post) that Tesla has a much more robust battery production infrastructure, both currently and based on announcements of future plans. And I also agree that battery production is right now the most important factor for mass adoption of EVs and for any new EV's success, which is why I think Model 3 will be more successful than Bolt overall.

Regardless, any advancement of EVs = good in my opinion.

 

[Breezy]

The production Bolt debuts next week. It goes into production, and will be available in all 50 states before the end of 2016.

I agree with others that battery production may be a constraint, initially. But I'm quite sure LG Chem has the capability to ramp up production if required.

 

[dsm363]

Does GM expect to sell more than 10,000-20,000 of these a year? Anytime soon? Wondering if they've announced sales goals.

 

[JRP3]

I thought I remembered something about 30K.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Does GM expect to sell more than 10,000-20,000 of these a year? Anytime soon? Wondering if they've announced sales goals.

GM said 30k.
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/28...-is-only-planning-30000-chevy-bolts-per-year/

Multiple reasons for that pointed out in article. Real reason is that LG simply doesn't have the production capacity to handle more than that esp. with other auto manufacturers they are also committed to. And given LG was burned previously by over-investing in production capacity, they aren't going to be willing to invest in more capacity until the sales are proven.

Secondary reason is probably GM doesn't want the same thing to happen like with the Volt where they announced a goal and then the sales fell far lower. 30k should be easy to hit unless GM completely screws up the marketing.

 

[flankspeed8]

Not so sure about the all 50 states. Volts 2016 only in about 12 states. I don't know why they limited it but although plans to sell all 50 they may come out with limited roll out initially since there is precedent. Also interesting that Lutz the putz ( really not someone I put faith in when he speaks about tesla) claims he doesn't understand how gm will make money on the bolt. I am more inclined to believe him on gm statements because of his probable left over contacts in the company

I think it is pretty obvious why the 2016 was rolled out only in the 11 CARB states. For the CARB credits. That being said, they have gone out of there way saying that the Bolt will be sold and marketed in all 50 states. They have committed to this being a production vehicle. Boy for people who hate EV FUD, there is a lot of it being spread in this thread.

That being said, I am undecided about what the replacement for my 2014 Volt will be. Tesla M3 will certainly be the more compelling product but at what final cost, options and wait? If I had to bet, I would put it all on the fact that the Bolt will be first to market and delivery, but I will be in not rush to replace and to be quite honestly the Volt may be the better bet for the cold climate I live in to eliminate range anxiety.

IMHO though, the biggest unknown with regards to the Bolt is how will the dealers receive it? If they are going to throw up obstacles, which I am afraid they will, it will be Tesla's direct model that will win the day.

 

[dhanson865]

GM said 30k.
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/28...-is-only-planning-30000-chevy-bolts-per-year/

US 30,000 would be very significant vs Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard where 20,000 a year is a top 3 placement for a pure EV. If it can outsell the BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf it'd command some respect just on that alone. Heck it might be able to beat one of those at only 15,000 a year.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

US 30,000 would be very significant vs Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard where 20,000 a year is a top 3 placement for a pure EV. If it can outsell the BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf it'd command some respect just on that alone. Heck it might be able to beat one of those at only 15,000 a year.

The volume really isn't that significant. The volume aims are lower than Tesla's current volume, and the battery capacity of the Bolt will be significantly lower than in every Tesla S and X sold.
Bolt production won't require any really sizable new investment because it'll be making use of a lot of spare capacity.

The Bolt is a significant step forwards, in that it will put LG-GM in a better position to commit (or not) to a volume long-distance BEV.

 

[stopcrazypp]

US 30,000 would be very significant vs Monthly Plug-In Sales Scorecard where 20,000 a year is a top 3 placement for a pure EV. If it can outsell the BMW i3 or Nissan Leaf it'd command some respect just on that alone. Heck it might be able to beat one of those at only 15,000 a year.

30k is worldwide production capacity for Bolt (including Opel/Vauxhall variant). Of course judging from Volt, the bulk of the sales will be in the US.

Leaf sold 60k worldwide last year. I think 30k should be easy for a 200 mile EV, esp. at that lower price point.

 

[S'toon]

GM said 30k.
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/28...-is-only-planning-30000-chevy-bolts-per-year/

Multiple reasons for that pointed out in article. Real reason is that LG simply doesn't have the production capacity to handle more than that esp. with other auto manufacturers they are also committed to. And given LG was burned previously by over-investing in production capacity, they aren't going to be willing to invest in more capacity until the sales are proven.

Secondary reason is probably GM doesn't want the same thing to happen like with the Volt where they announced a goal and then the sales fell far lower. 30k should be easy to hit unless GM completely screws up the marketing.

Given the marketing of the Volt, and the EV1, I can't imagine GM not screwing up the marketing of the Bolt. :smile:

 

[Spidy]

Therefore the first thing of a new 'mass EV' I wanna see, is the factory that will be producing the batteries. And it should be big, really big.
Without it, that EV is same as nonexistent.

The First American Gigafactory Probably Won’t Be from Tesla

 

[WarpedOne]

Wake me up when it finally happens. If I am not already dead by that time...

 

[palmer_md]

The First American Gigafactory Probably Won’t Be from Tesla

They might actually be first, but they had a 5 year head start, so I would hope they could be first. Based on the reports of only 300 employees, I don't think they are too close to anything huge.

LG Chem holds job fair in effort to double workforce | WOODTV.com


Here is a report from 2012 when the factory was complete, but employees were not doing any battery construction.
Volt no jolt: LG Chem employees idle - YouTube

 

[wdolson]

The First American Gigafactory Probably Won’t Be from Tesla

I've seen speculation that the Holland, MI plant will top out around 1.5 GWh a year production, while the Gigafactory is built for 35 GWh production and will likely produce more than 1.5 GWh its first year. LG Chem might be the first to 1 GWh of production, but Tesla is building for far more than that.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The First American Gigafactory Probably Won’t Be from Tesla

I'm looking at the timeline and it seems the article is speculation that LG will hit 1GWh at that factory by end 2016.

On the other hand Tesla's first stage alone is ~7GWh and cell production has been moved forward to begin by end of 2016. Seems like another case of someone claiming "first" but in the grand scheme of things not that meaningful.

 

[wdolson]

I'm looking at the timeline and it seems the article is speculation that LG will hit 1GWh at that factory by end 2016.

On the other hand Tesla's first stage alone is ~7GWh and cell production has been moved forward to begin by end of 2016. Seems like another case of someone claiming "first" but in the grand scheme of things not that meaningful.

Sort of like claiming to be the first to set foot on the moon only to have someone show up with a full scale colonial operation the next day.

 

[WarpedOne]

I don't really care who is goint to be first. A gigafactory is a bit of a misnomer. One GWh of batteries is only 20.000 cars with a bit longer range i.e. 50kWh per car. Which byitself is still too short for a real General purpose primary car.
Tesla gigafactory is on multi-deka-giga scale, two notches higher, on 500.000 annual ev production.

Do we have the size of those unused LG plants? What are its production limts? Everyone and their brother is supposed to be usng their batteries and thus kill tesla...

 

[RobStark]

I cannot imagine how they will increase range by 150 more miles to produce the bolt at a Lower cost than the volt without sacrificing everything else.

For starters getting rid of the ICE, all of its associated hardware like catalytic converter, and the complex hybrid stuff like transmissions.

 

[scaesare]

The First American Gigafactory Probably Won’t Be from Tesla

That article seems to imply that Elon's strict definition for gigafactory[1] is: "LG Chem factory is poised to be the first North American facility to produce more than 1 GWh of automotive Li-ion cells".

I don't believe Elon was ever aiming for that metric, as he was differentiating the scale of the factory from what exists anywhere in the world today... and there are already factories producing well over 1GWh worth of cells. Rather, he was comparing the scale to so-called "mega-factories" that exist today.

1GWh is child's play, really...


[1] Elon coined the term, I believe

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

That article seems to imply that Elon's strict definition for gigafactory[1] is: "LG Chem factory is poised to be the first North American facility to produce more than 1 GWh of automotive Li-ion cells".

I don't believe Elon was ever aiming for that metric, as he was differentiating the scale of the factory from what exists anywhere in the world today... and there are already factories producing well over 1GWh worth of cells. Rather, he was comparing the scale to so-called "mega-factories" that exist today.

1GWh is child's play, really...


[1] Elon coined the term, I believe

The point was that the Gigafactory's output would be so large that it is measured in GWh, rather than MWh.