Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[Jeff N]

Note that C&D number for drag coefficient are higher than what manufacturer's specified (Nissan claims .28 and Tesla .22). Therefore it's reasonable to assume that Cd of the Bolt would be .34 in C&D test.

C&D found higher drag coefficients than claimed by the manufacturers for the Prius and LEAF but confirmed the .28 and .24 claims of GM and Tesla for the Volt and Model S. GM claims the Spark EV gets .326. C&D's report of .312 for the Bolt seems plausible. Meanwhile, this report claims the Model 3 is aiming for .20 or less:

Sources: Tesla Model 3 will have extreme aerodynamic design details | Electrek

 

[Jeff N]

As someone else posted, the GM Bolt is largely Korean. Design, battery, electronics, audio, motors, even the body. Yup, 'Merica.

Let's see....

The motor is designed in the US by GM but built in Korea by LG so it's Korean.

The body is designed in Korea by GM but it's built in the US by GM so it's Korean. Huh?

In reality, some of these things are probably co-engineered. The cells are clearly LG and the pack is built by LG but I suspect the pack physical layout, structural support, and battery cooling design is from GM or was heavily influenced by GM. GM is doing lots of system integration and testing. It's not as if LG designed and built all the components and then packed it into a box with an instruction sheet and sent it to Ohio for assembly.

 

[FlasherZ]

It's not as if LG designed and built all the components and then packed it into a box with an instruction sheet and sent it to Ohio for assembly.

No, that's the CHÄRJE, a Swedish car.

 

[Breezy]

Let's see....

The motor is designed in the US by GM but built in Korea by LG so it's Korean.

The body is designed in Korea by GM but it's built in the US by GM so it's Korean. Huh?

Yep, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this. All you really need to know here is: Tesla good, GM bad. Adjust facts as required.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Let's see....

The motor is designed in the US by GM but built in Korea by LG so it's Korean.

The body is designed in Korea by GM but it's built in the US by GM so it's Korean. Huh?

In reality, some of these things are probably co-engineered. The cells are clearly LG and the pack is built by LG but I suspect the pack physical layout, structural support, and battery cooling design is from GM or was heavily influenced by GM. GM is doing lots of system integration and testing. It's not as if LG designed and built all the components and then packed it into a box with an instruction sheet and sent it to Ohio for assembly.

Chevrolet Develops Bolt EV Using Strategic Partnership

The GM press release listed the following as supplied by LG:

It says that they worked together, but we don't know how much. Personally I think it's:
- Mention the GM motor so people can't say 'all the guts are LG',
- Be nice to key cell supplier.
- Big up for PR, get ZEV but in reality don't push the car too hard because you don't really want everything from LG, and you still want key costs to fall before committing to scale up.


Electric Drive Motor (built from GM design)
Power Invertor Module (converts DC power to AC for the drive unit)
On Board Charger
Electric Climate Control System Compressor
Battery Cells and Pack Ed: says nothing about GM design
High Power Distribution Module (manages the flow of high voltage to various components)
Battery Heater Ed: might just be a basic heater for extreme temperatures, or the TMS
Accessory Power Module (maintains low-voltage power delivery to accessories)
Power Line Communication Module (manages communication between vehicle and a DC charging station)
Instrument Cluster
Infotainment System

Covers pretty much everything from the motor backwards.

 

[Jeff N]

GM has been designing AC induction and more recently PM electric motors for automotive use in two-mode and Voltec transmissions and for the Spark EV. Sometimes they have outsourced the manufacturing and sometimes not. The smaller ferrite PM motor/generator in the new Volt is innovative and unusual and they presented an SAE paper on its design last year. Their former Delco/Remy subsidiary which was spun off has a specialty in designing and selling electric motors. If the press release states that the motor is a GM design I see no reason to doubt it especially since I'm not aware of LG having previous experience designing motors with a similar size and duty cycle.

Although we don't know much about the liquid-cooled TMS of the Bolt battery, I've seen some speculation that seemed plausible that it is using a design similar to that of the Spark EV. We should find out more in an apparent GM SAE paper to be published in April. A preliminary draft schedule of an SAE preview electrification seminar in February listed the following potential presentation by GM:

"Chevrolet Bolt Battery Pack – The Heart of GM’s newest Electric Vehicle
To quote GM CEO Mary Barra, "The Bolt EV concept is really a natural flow from the work that we've done, the expertise we have in electrification, and listening to our customers.” One of the industry leading technologies at the heart of the vehicle is its new battery pack. It is built upon the lessons learned from both the Chevy Volt and Spark eV, and is the largest capacity battery ever released by General Motors. The design, done in collaboration with GM’s strategic partners achieves great energy density using advanced cell chemistry combined with excellent vehicle integration. The areas of design that will be discussed are:
• Structural Integration of Battery to Vehicle
• Battery Capacity and Power Output
• Cell Chemistry and Modular Construction
"

That presentation has since been held back until the full SAE World Congress meeting in April.

I suppose some could read that presentation description as evidence that LG designed the pack entirely on their own but my guess is that both companies closely collaborated on the design. For one thing, the pack is a structural member of the vehicle and provides about 25% of its torsional rigidity as part of the overall unibody design, according to other statements by GM. I haven't seen anyone dispute that GM designed the body and suspension platform of the car and it makes sense to me that the structural design of the battery skateboard likely required some co-engineering with the body design engineers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Let's see....

The motor is designed in the US by GM but built in Korea by LG so it's Korean.

The body is designed in Korea by GM but it's built in the US by GM so it's Korean. Huh?

In reality, some of these things are probably co-engineered. The cells are clearly LG and the pack is built by LG but I suspect the pack physical layout, structural support, and battery cooling design is from GM or was heavily influenced by GM. GM is doing lots of system integration and testing. It's not as if LG designed and built all the components and then packed it into a box with an instruction sheet and sent it to Ohio for assembly.

The closest supplier relation analogies I can think of to the Bolt in the EV world are:
Tesla contract vehicles: Smart ed (1st gen), RAV4 EV, B-Class EV
Ford's contracted vehicles: Transit Connect Electric (Azure), Focus Electric (Magna/LGCPI)

All of those are compliance cars. It is unusual for an EV not built for compliance to have all the core EV components manufactured by a third party (with final assembly of vehicle the only time they touch those components). Of course this unique circumstance may be something LG Chem forced on GM in order to get the best cell prices.

 

[mikevbf]

I am not sure this has been posted yet:
‘Not a compliance car,’ GM says 2017 Chevy Bolt can meet demand of over 50,000 per year"

 

[Jeff N]

I'm not sure, because I haven't driven the Bolt yet, but one video showing the Bolt being driven seemed to imply that using the paddle in the Bolt to bring the car to a complete stop would also "hold" the car (likely with friction brakes as with hill assist) and disable auto-creep without the driver needing to step on the brake pedal.

Confirmed. This pattern works when stopping the car without the brake pedal in 'L' high-regen driving mode and also if using the regen paddles to bring the car to a stop even in 'D' light-regen mode. After the car stops, it is held still as in "hill assist" (even on an incline) until the accelerator is pressed or the brake pedal is pressed and released.

See the discussion about this towards the end of this new article:
Exclusive: Inside The Chevrolet Bolt With Its Chief Engineer - New Details

 

[stopcrazypp]

I am not sure this has been posted yet:
‘Not a compliance car,’ GM says 2017 Chevy Bolt can meet demand of over 50,000 per year"

50k fits with the maximum capacity estimate of LG Chem done elsewhere in this thread (I estimated 53k). However, to do that I suspect they will have to offset some of their production for other cars from the South Korea plant to the Nanjing plant or expand the factory further if they want to supply 50k (as LG Chem isn't only making cells for the Bolt in that plant).

By the data posted by others of 3.2GWh nameplate capacity (which is probably from below), Ochang line can make enough cells for 53k Bolt by capacity based scaling if it made cells for nothing else (which obviously is not true).

 

[Bangor Bob]

It is unusual for an EV not built for compliance to have all the core EV components manufactured by a third party

Well, given that there are just two "on sale" models so far of EV's not built for compliance, I'd say we have insufficient data...

 

[electracity]

I am not sure this has been posted yet:
‘Not a compliance car,’ GM says 2017 Chevy Bolt can meet demand of over 50,000 per year"

"all the exterior body panels are aluminum"
“No. Adaptive cruise control – no, you would need the blended brakes to do that and we didn’t want to do that with this car. However, all the standard side blind zones, rear cross traffic alert, ten air bags, all that’s there. What’s new is the optional Rear Camera Mirror. You normally have a 22 degree field of vision with a standard mirror, this takes you to 80. We also have optional Surround Vision, which you know is the 360 degree camera system. We’re still working hard to perfect it, but I’m told it’s the best one camera systems the guys have seen so far.”

Booo. Most Bolt buyers will be Urban. Many would gladly pay for adaptive cruise control

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Well, given that there are just two "on sale" models so far of EV's not built for compliance, I'd say we have insufficient data...

I would say we have flat batteries in the floor, which would not be done on a compliance car. But good Bolt sales will allow GM to sell lots o' big cars and trucks, which is somewhat compliance-like.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Well, given that there are just two "on sale" models so far of EV's not built for compliance, I'd say we have insufficient data...

I think there are plenty more than just two. Just off the top of my head: Leaf, i3 BEV, Golf EV, Zoe, Fluence, Kangoo, iMIEV (and clones), BYD e6. I'm sure there are plenty I missed. None of them have all their EV components made by third parties and only assemble the final vehicle. They assemble at least the motor, power electronics, or the battery pack/modules.

To be clear, I'm not saying the Bolt is a compliance vehicle. GM obviously can sell way more copies than just compliance. I'm just saying so far the circumstances of its manufacturing is unique among the EVs not built mainly for compliance. Even the Spark EV (which is compliance) had more EV components built by GM than the Bolt.

 

[Cebe]

"all the exterior body panels are aluminum"
“...You normally have a 22 degree field of vision with a standard mirror, this takes you to 80.”

.

Where did the 22 degrees come from? Since the 80 degrees is from the rear camera, and 22 degrees is from the mirror itself, the actual difference in what you see is not as drastic. You can also move the head and get more coverage when using the mirror, where moving your head will make no difference with the camera. Need some illustrations here...

 

[Breezy]

50k fits with the maximum capacity estimate of LG Chem done elsewhere in this thread (I estimated 53k).

GM was asked if they could build 50k, hypothetically, by the journalist who wrote that story.

The capacity isn't 50,000 any more than it was 30,000. GM isn't saying what the capacity is.

 

[RobStark]

GM was asked if they could build 50k, hypothetically, by the journalist who wrote that story.

The capacity isn't 50,000 any more than it was 30,000. GM isn't saying what the capacity is.

Reuters has multiple sources with various Bolt suppliers that GM asked them to prepare for 25k-30k Bolts.

Even if LG had capacity for 1M Bolts they can't go much higher than 30k Bolts in 2017.

Assuming 18 months from now extra capacity is not spoken for by other OEMs.

 

[Discoducky]

"all the exterior body panels are aluminum"
“No. Adaptive cruise control – no, you would need the blended brakes to do that and we didn’t want to do that with this car. However, all the standard side blind zones, rear cross traffic alert, ten air bags, all that’s there. What’s new is the optional Rear Camera Mirror. You normally have a 22 degree field of vision with a standard mirror, this takes you to 80. We also have optional Surround Vision, which you know is the 360 degree camera system. We’re still working hard to perfect it, but I’m told it’s the best one camera systems the guys have seen so far.”

Booo. Most Bolt buyers will be Urban. Many would gladly pay for adaptive cruise control

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I would say we have flat batteries in the floor, which would not be done on a compliance car. But good Bolt sales will allow GM to sell lots o' big cars and trucks, which is somewhat compliance-like.

Wow, this is surprising as they will need a front camera and radar very soon to get 5 stars for the updated NHSTA tests coming soon...NOTE: They can't do AEB or FCW without a camera and/or radar.

I wonder if it will have sonar for parking?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Reuters has multiple sources with various Bolt suppliers that GM asked them to prepare for 25k-30k Bolts.

Even if LG had capacity for 1M Bolts they can't go much higher than 30k Bolts in 2017.

Assuming 18 months from now extra capacity is not spoken for by other OEMs.

We know they are planning for ~30k. Some people take that as an absolute maximum cap which is what GM is saying is not true. The argument seems to be over if suddenly demand is way higher, how much can LG Chem and GM make. By capacity based equivalence, with LG Chem's current South Korean factory, I say 53k if it all went to Bolt cell production.

I don't have all the data yet to do a cell based equivalent estimate as there is no information on how thick the Bolt cell is (I do have a cell layer count from Car & Driver's report on LG's factory, but need the thickness to do a sanity check, as it was not clear in that report if the numbers were referring to the Bolt's cells directly). We might not find that out until the car is out.

 

[jas]

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Yep, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this. All you really need to know here is: Tesla good, GM bad. Adjust facts as required.

Facts, predictions, opinions, etc, etc....

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[jas]

I'm curious. I wonder if a vehicle to be released at the end of this year is already having batteries being produced counts as capacity.