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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

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The question is; does VW and Nissan market EVs any better?

Because that is GM Bolt's real competition not Tesla.
None of the traditional auto manufacturers can market an EV like Tesla could. Many of the benefits of an EV are directly against the rest of their products. To highlight the lack of required maintenance, motor responsiveness, or environmental benefits ostracizes all their other vehicles.

The dealerships have no motivation to sell them either; EVs don't require as much maintenance for return visits. My Chevy dealer sent me a notice that my Spark EV was due for an oil change.
 
Dealer support for Chevy Bolt, or lack thereof?

As mentioned in another thread I hope the Bolt is a successful car. However, I will stick with Tesla. One theme I have read when discussing the Chevy Bolt is the vast dealer support network Chevy has. I can only share my personal experience with my "local" dealers. A few months ago I considered getting a Chevy Volt or Cadillac ELR to tide me over until Texas had more superchargers. Well, I live in the heart of oil country in Texas. Much to my surprise there was not a single dealer within 150 miles of me that had a volt or elr. So, I put an online inquiry into ordering a new one through several dealers. I received a call back from several dealers inviting me to come in for a test drive. "Oh, I didn't realize you had a volt/elr for me to drive" I told them. Oh no, but they have several cars for me to test drive they are sure I would love. No, I inform them. I want a Volt/elr. They put me on hold. Most just came back and said they couldn't order one. One obnoxious GM told me they didn't have a volt, would not be getting a volt, and wasn't going to order me a volt. What a @#&*%#. This was only six months ago. So, they just helped push me towards getting my Tesla that I absolutely love!
 
I don't know where you are in TX, but that could be because you were looking for a Volt in the dead zone between the 2015 and the 2017. Chevy didn't make that many 2015s and only shipped 2016s to CARB states. I see a few dealers in the DFW area starting to show 2017s on cars.com.

The ELR is a different story. I couldn't find one to test drive earlier this year in the Los Angeles area. Those are going to be rare beasties.


Any dealer who sells the Volt is supposed to also have a Volt Technician on hand for service. I currently live in Volt country (California) so have no issues, but will be moving back to DFW next year. So I will be getting to figure out which DFW area Chevy has the best Volt service. Hope it isn't too hard.
 
My feeling is that if there is truly sustained demand for the Volt or Bolt or whatever EV some dealer will step in to fill the void and they will be the go to dealer for people looking for those cars. You already see this with some of the large volume California dealers who are shipping cars around the country. They will eventually learn or fall into obsolescence.

On the other hand, Tesla's lack of a more robust service network will hurt them also.
 
I was at the Chicago Auto Show and looked at the Bolt (it was blocked off so no way to get inside it). I was not at all impressed. There is a tiny amount of storage in the back, I'd say at most a foot deep. The spokesmodel showed me a pic of the motor and it looks unnecessarily complicated, and it is in the frunk area. The car looks like it will be camped inside, and outside its just a bland design that won't draw the masses to it. If it actually gets 200 mile range that would be great.
 
When we got our Volt, the nearest dealer with a Volt was 50 miles away, but I get my Volt's warranty fixes at a dealership 2 miles away. There's a tech there who drives a Volt, and the last time I was in, I saw that he had a 2016 plugged into the Level 2 there. It's just luck of the draw.
 
Lack of support is an issue in some geographic areas. My local Chevrolet dealer sometimes has one Volt in stock.

But the availability of local service is an advantage for GM. The nearest Tesla service centre to me is over 2 hours away.

Or a disadvantage. A patient told me he loved his Volt but he traded it in because he couldn't get it serviced by the Chevy dealer in his town.
 
The question is; does VW and Nissan market EVs any better?

Dealers follow money. If Leaf sells well, they will push Leaf.

My nearest Nissan dealer is the largest Leaf dealer in the country. They sell more Leafs than Altimas. This shows how dealers can market Leafs if it is their largest selling model ...
- They used to have (prior to '16 model) 100s of Leafs on the lot.
- Their WiFi password is Zero Emission (or something like that)
- When they moved to a new location they called the governor to cut the "tape" - but in this case tape was actually a gas hose
- They have installed 6 CHAdeMO chargers

So, if the dealer makes money of EVs they can and will market it well.

as for VW, do they even sell EVs outside CA ?

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The dealerships have no motivation to sell them either; EVs don't require as much maintenance for return visits. My Chevy dealer sent me a notice that my Spark EV was due for an oil change.
This is a common myth. Few people get their oil changes or services done at the expensive dealer. They go to independent service centers.

Dealers get to service warranty claims - that is true for both ICE and EVs. In my last ICE, I got one warranty claim and one recall done at a Nissan dealer in more than 10 years. In the last 5 years I've gone to the dealer once a year for battery check, couple of times for software upgrade and one warranty claim.
 
This is a common myth. Few people get their oil changes or services done at the expensive dealer. They go to independent service centers.

Do you have a source for this? The last study that I saw showed the majority being roughly 50/50 between the top two: dealership (not necessarily the one purchased from) vs. "quickie oil change" locations, with a small number still insisting on doing it themselves.
 
Sometimes you have to put the cart before the horse, GM doesn't seem willing to do that in some areas. Tesla has put most of their carts before the horse, although as some have pointed out even today it can be difficult to get a service appointment as quick as they would like. Cheap gas, which lead to trucks selling like crazy again, isn't helping that much unfortunately.

Volts seem reasonably commonplace in Raleigh, but I'm not in the market for one so I cant say if they are easy to get serviced in addition to buying one. Toyota did not sell a plug-in Prius in this market when I bought one back in 2012; I don't know if they do now or not. I wouldn't have bought one (sorry need more range), but I found it interesting because the area does have more than few chargers spread around.

I suspect there will be some service center growing pains as the M3's really start to grow. Will they expand ahead of sales? Or schedule expansions based on quarterly sales results? It's fairly easy to get building permits in my area and certainly a lot of real estate available (reasons why my employer built a huge global data center here rather than near the HQ in MA), but things are likely different elsewhere.



My feeling is that if there is truly sustained demand for the Volt or Bolt or whatever EV some dealer will step in to fill the void and they will be the go to dealer for people looking for those cars. You already see this with some of the large volume California dealers who are shipping cars around the country. They will eventually learn or fall into obsolescence.

On the other hand, Tesla's lack of a more robust service network will hurt them also.
 
as for VW, do they even sell EVs outside CA ?

.

The e-Golf alone has been outselling the LEAF in Norway since its introduction. That doesn't even count the Golf GTE, Audi e-tron, and VW e-UP which are also available there and in other European markets.

It is true that VW EVs in North America are just for compliance purposes. CA + the other ZEV states. I test drove one that was sold in Maine.
 
Sometimes you have to put the cart before the horse, GM doesn't seem willing to do that in some areas. Tesla has put most of their carts before the horse, although as some have pointed out even today it can be difficult to get a service appointment as quick as they would like. Cheap gas, which lead to trucks selling like crazy again, isn't helping that much unfortunately.

Volts seem reasonably commonplace in Raleigh, but I'm not in the market for one so I cant say if they are easy to get serviced in addition to buying one. Toyota did not sell a plug-in Prius in this market when I bought one back in 2012; I don't know if they do now or not. I wouldn't have bought one (sorry need more range), but I found it interesting because the area does have more than few chargers spread around.

I suspect there will be some service center growing pains as the M3's really start to grow. Will they expand ahead of sales? Or schedule expansions based on quarterly sales results? It's fairly easy to get building permits in my area and certainly a lot of real estate available (reasons why my employer built a huge global data center here rather than near the HQ in MA), but things are likely different elsewhere.


Tesla says they're going to start ramping up service center build-out this year in anticipation of next year's M3 launch. They're not waiting around for people to purchase without support. I think I read that they plan to open 80 new service centers this year. Who knows how many next year. Then, I'm sure that once the M3 is read to sale, CapEx will drop and they'll continue to put money into service centers and superchargers. I'm not worried about service center availability at all.
 
There are certain models of GM cars and trucks that require the techs to have a special certification. Our Volts, Diesels, and ZR-1 are among them, our other ones have not.

And not all dealers get an allocation for every model. This system blows. I should be able to do like Tesla, and order my car from the factory, then have it delivered at my closest dealership. But that is illegal in many states, and broken in others.

However, thinking GM has a poor service network is simply not accurate, or thinking they do not offer customer care after the sale.

There are issues with OEM service with all brands. Some brands do not even require specific certification/training on their EV/Hybrid/diesel/track machines.

What I can tell you, is that if I have a 10 year old car from any major mfr, that requires major work, I have my choice to go to the factory for service and parts, or the aftermarket. It doesn't matter which brand. Heck I can do the service myself (which sadly, is often what I do to insure the work was performed to my expectations if a vehicle is past warranty).

I do not know what I'm buying this year yet for personal use. What brand, what powertrain, what family group. I don't even need another vehicle, but I'd like one. Tesla is still on the table, but obviously not a Model 3, since they are unlikely be available.


EDIT - I've read a lot of assumptions on the Internet about the Bolt. The lack of service is a new one. The older ones are: it's a rebadged Korean car, it will remain a fire hazard, it won't have the range they claim, it will be more expensive, it won't be available before the Model 3, it is too small, it's too big, the name is bad, it is ugly, it's a repowered edition of the XXXX ICE model, etc, etc, etc.

Let's see what a Bolt actually is in Retail Trim before we decide the aero is equal to a garbage truck, it goes less than 100mi, is sold with no heater, and is made in Russia, eh?
 
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One obnoxious GM told me they didn't have a volt, would not be getting a volt, and wasn't going to order me a volt. What a @#&*%#. This was only six months ago. So, they just helped push me towards getting my Tesla that I absolutely love!
If you're in North Texas and truly want a Volt, you want to visit Classic Chevrolet in Grapevine and speak to Buzz Smith. He's a true Volt believer: http://www.buzzsmith.us
 
I would say knowledgeability and support for BEVs and PHEVs is regional. Thankfully, I live in a region where EVs are pretty popular. I've still heard stories of dealers in the area being passively anti-EV, but they're not generally seen as money-losing lot-sitters out here. As expected, I emailed the local Chevy dealer expressing interest in a Bolt, and a few days later got a email flyer hawking their "HUGE SALES EVENT!!" Not terribly surprised. I'm just hoping when the time comes for Bolt pre-orders or configurations, that I'll get a personal contact.
 
I was at the Chicago Auto Show and looked at the Bolt (it was blocked off so no way to get inside it). I was not at all impressed. There is a tiny amount of storage in the back, I'd say at most a foot deep.
The rear storage with the rear seats up is not very large between the rear seat back and the hatchback but it is vertical and begins low at the floor. With the rear seats down it provides a large and very practical mostly flat 57 cubic feet of storage space.

image.jpeg


The spokesmodel showed me a pic of the motor and it looks unnecessarily complicated, and it is in the frunk area.
It shouldn't be any more complicated than the FWD motor from Tesla. It's just a motor with a fixed gear reduction and an integrated differential gear. It is co-axial in that the motor is roughly located in line with the wheels as is the FWD tesla motor. GM releases cutaway images showing the internal components, gears, and complicated under-the-hood accessory pumps with their tube routings, and cabling etc. Tesla releases only minimalist images of their fully encased motors and packs or they show a cutaway of the motor core in a way that shows only minimal exposure of parts. This can leave a misleading impression that the Tesla FWD motor and gearing is more elegant and simple than the Bolt EV motor which GM shows in all of its cutaway complexity.

The Bolt EV appears to have its inverter mounted separately above the motor (like in a LEAF etc.).

The car looks like it will be camped inside, and outside its just a bland design that won't draw the masses to it. If it actually gets 200 mile range that would be great.
The outside bland design is subjective but many will probably agree with you. The initial Tesla Model 3 design will likely be sexier although it is apparently going to be more sedan-like and probably have less headroom and interior space. We probably won't see the more Bolt-like Tesla Model 3 CUV design until next year. I have seen no reviews indicating the Bolt is cramped inside and several have said the opposite.
 
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