Unfortunately not, had a good look and can't see anywhere that would display the time.
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Clock Change - Economy-7
- Thread starter WannabeOwner
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- United Kingdom
Unfortunately not, had a good look and can't see anywhere that would display the time.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
That's a bit of a bugger, as it could have provided a useful indication as to the cause of the problem, especially as your observation of the rate 2 flag being set during what should be the rate 1 time period would seem to suggest a clock error.
The other cause could be that the meter is being commanded to change rates by the teleswitch. The S2AT meter has this capability, and it looks as if the rate control wire from the Teleswitch is connected to the meter (the thinnest wire to the meter). The teleswitch could be at fault, as it relies on receiving a command that's transmitted over long wave BBC Radio 4 to switch rates. One clue as to whether, and when, it's switching would be to find the switching times and then listen to the thing. They make a clunk as the rate changes and the contactor switches.
Either way, I'd get on to your supplier to get it fixed, as the teleswitch is their responsibility too. They will probably rip the thing out, along with the meter (as that's over 18 years old now - it's a 2001 meter) and install an E7 meter with a built in clock.
In case anyone is interested and apologies for hijacking a thread about E7 clock changes.
Been on the phone to Bulb (40 min hold
) and was advised the meter will need replacing and they can fit a smart meter. Whilst going through some questions I advised I had an immersion heater - apparently this isn't good as the smart meter won't work with it. Something to do with having 5 terminals?..
Then was told that they haven't any 'normal' meters in stock and unsure when they are likely to come back in. Only options are to wait until stock arrives or go to another electric supplier to see if they have any! I then asked if my existing one can just be repaired and they are going to look into it and come back to me.
Been on the phone to Bulb (40 min hold
) and was advised the meter will need replacing and they can fit a smart meter. Whilst going through some questions I advised I had an immersion heater - apparently this isn't good as the smart meter won't work with it. Something to do with having 5 terminals?..Then was told that they haven't any 'normal' meters in stock and unsure when they are likely to come back in. Only options are to wait until stock arrives or go to another electric supplier to see if they have any! I then asked if my existing one can just be repaired and they are going to look into it and come back to me.
It almost sounds unbelievable! What business are they in, oh, providing electricity...In case anyone is interested and apologies for hijacking a thread about E7 clock changes.
Been on the phone to Bulb (40 min hold
Then was told that they haven't any 'normal' meters in stock and unsure when they are likely to come back in. Only options are to wait until stock arrives or go to another electric supplier to see if they have any! I then asked if my existing one can just be repaired and they are going to look into it and come back to me.
I’d take them up on the offer of moving. Octopus are very good
MrBadger
Badger out
Is this because you have/they think that immersion is on a dedicated E7 circuit, along with storage heaters etc?
On similar subject, anyone know of a time switch that also has smart meter tarrif control?
To be honest, I'm not sure - is there any way of knowing if it's on a dedicated circuit (forgive me if it's obvious, certainly not my area of expertise).
Just had an email from Bulb regarding the potential fix to my existing meter and they cannot do it because I have a radio teleswitch..their advise is to seek a new provider and recommended one of the top 6. Find it incredible that they are just saying goodbye so easily if I'm honest.
Would I be right in thinking I can only switch of Octopus if I have a smart meter?
MrBadger
Badger out
You can switch to Octopus without a smart meter but Octopus Go requires one.
Dedicated E7 circuits will only work when the E7 clock has chimed. So normally you would have 2 immersion heaters, the lower one dedicated to E7 and upper one for manual topup. The E7 one would have no timer other than which controls the high/low metering.
I think (long time ago) when I was in a property that had dedicated E7, there were two consumer units. One normal leccy, the other E7 only.
Dedicated E7 circuits will only work when the E7 clock has chimed. So normally you would have 2 immersion heaters, the lower one dedicated to E7 and upper one for manual topup. The E7 one would have no timer other than which controls the high/low metering.
I think (long time ago) when I was in a property that had dedicated E7, there were two consumer units. One normal leccy, the other E7 only.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Having a separate "white meter", E7 (or E10) circuit was normal when these off peak tariffs were first rolled out, as the intention was to use the excess electricity generation capacity at night to run heating and hot water systems. At the time, a lot of UK generation was coal fired and nuclear, and couldn't just be shut down at night, so this was a way of being able to increase night time demand.
Newer E7 installations don't use a teleswitch, but use a clock in the meter. This has the ability to control a remote contactor, so if needed a secondary off-peak circuit can still be used. This system works the other way around, though. The older systems used the teleswitch to both turn on the off-peak circuit and signal to the meter to change rates. Newer E7 meters have the signal to switch to the off-peak rate generated by the meter.
The teleswitch system is virtually obsolete, as they haven't been fitted in new installations for a few decades now. Also, long wave BBC Radio 4 (used to transmit the teleswitch code) is hanging on by a thread, as it relies on a small stock of obsolete transmitter valves, and when these are used up it will have to either switch off, or operate at a very much reduced power level, using a different transmitter.
We had an E7 meter fitted a year ago, it was done about a week after I requested it, by SSE. We don't have a separate E7 only switched circuit, but rely on time switches to switch things like the water heating boost and car charge point on during the off-peak period. I prefer to have the charge point controlling the off-peak charge period, as it's a much simpler way to do things, rather than have to change the settings in the car. Mind you, the BMW i3 off-peak charging is very weird, and only works if a departure time is programmed, and if you don't then depart at the set time the car bleats at you for not having done as you've said you would. Typically Teutonic, I guess...
Newer E7 installations don't use a teleswitch, but use a clock in the meter. This has the ability to control a remote contactor, so if needed a secondary off-peak circuit can still be used. This system works the other way around, though. The older systems used the teleswitch to both turn on the off-peak circuit and signal to the meter to change rates. Newer E7 meters have the signal to switch to the off-peak rate generated by the meter.
The teleswitch system is virtually obsolete, as they haven't been fitted in new installations for a few decades now. Also, long wave BBC Radio 4 (used to transmit the teleswitch code) is hanging on by a thread, as it relies on a small stock of obsolete transmitter valves, and when these are used up it will have to either switch off, or operate at a very much reduced power level, using a different transmitter.
We had an E7 meter fitted a year ago, it was done about a week after I requested it, by SSE. We don't have a separate E7 only switched circuit, but rely on time switches to switch things like the water heating boost and car charge point on during the off-peak period. I prefer to have the charge point controlling the off-peak charge period, as it's a much simpler way to do things, rather than have to change the settings in the car. Mind you, the BMW i3 off-peak charging is very weird, and only works if a departure time is programmed, and if you don't then depart at the set time the car bleats at you for not having done as you've said you would. Typically Teutonic, I guess...
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I’d forgotten about the white meter too
I always remember them because of Harold Wilson's famous "white heat of technology" speech. That was around the time we were being promised free, unmetered, electricity, as nuclear generation was going to generate electricity so cheaply it wouldn't be worth metering.
I don't know anything about it, but if you had a dedicate E7 circuit (e.g. for Immersion to only come on when the meter was in "Off Peak" mode) wouldn't the Tariff Meter (or failing that the Tele Switch) need 3 wires coming out? Normal L/N for the house, and an additional Timed-Live to switch the E7 circuits such as immersion?
I can't see any third wire in your photo
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Yes, the teleswitch contactor isn't being used, so there's just a single supply now. My guess is that the house may have had storage heaters at some time, these have now been removed and the meter and associated wiring reverted to a single supply, fed by the tails leading off to the lower right of the photo.
ACarneiro
Active Member
Judging by the way they spelled “Tariff” wrong, it wouldn’t surprise me if the E7 meter has been programmed wrong...
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