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Confusion about FSD and AP

This is clearly what happened, thank you for pointing it out, I stand corrected. Seems obvious now that this one trip thinking I was in FSD on city streets confusing both me and the car caused this score. Okay then, sounds like I won't qualify even if/when they do the next release but no biggie.

I cannot edit or change the title of this thread, I'll report and ask a moderator to do it.
Again, any time you drive on AP, it won't affect your safety score (and in fact it improves it in a way). If AP itself hard breaks, that hard breaking event won't be tallied. The best way to get a 99 score is to go on a long stretch of straight highway and let it drive itself on AP back and forth for hundreds of miles. This all but guarantees you a 100 score.
 
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I believe so, I pressed the button to sign up a few days ago and it appeared this morning saying I was enrolled. I already had navigate on AP turned on and it the car was trying to drive itself. Here's a screen (keep in mind I just updated the software after the drive this morning).

View attachment 768179
I realize that by now the Original Poster knows that they don't have FSD Beta. The fact this thread exists does show that something is wrong. We on TMC AI know that a request and an acceptance into the "queue" does not mean you have the software, but how many other people are out there who think you do?

With all the different named Beta features in the screenshot turned on, and the car able to somewhat seem like it's driving as FSD Beta with NoA, the instructions are not as clear as they need to be.

What's going wrong here? How can this misinterpretation be improved so these mistakes don't happen?

img_4279-jpeg.768179
 
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Mardak

Active Member
Oct 13, 2018
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How can this misinterpretation be improved so these mistakes don't happen?
The display still explicitly says "queue" which should imply one is still waiting, but a relatively simple change could be to have the FSD Beta toggle visible but grayed out and maybe even show a message when trying to toggle that the vehicle hasn't been deemed eligible.

Although the existing UI does try to explain that when clicking the request button again.
 
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Wow. Ummmmm..... Please have patience with this question.
What am I getting for $10ooo? (just got my VIN)

....a lane keeper with rough lane change ability ?
While I drive way too carefully to get a score good enough to wait in a long queue for FSDbeta ?
In short, yes. The most useful thing you get is Navigate on Autopilot (NOA) which will let the car drive itself (with close supervision from you) on controlled access highways (freeways). It works well and is pretty reliable, but not infallible
 
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So I've enrolled into FSD and gave it a try for the first time today. I drove down several well known streets with a variety of stop lights and stop signs, with two different roundabouts.

Stop lights:
It slowed or stopped at every single green light I came across, maybe a dozen or so, to the point it was unusable and I had to shut if off because people kept honking at me.

Stop signs:
Stopped but would not take off without intervention, this happened with every one so I assume it must be a default.

Lane changing:
It did not get a single lane change right, it would say "take this lane" and then when it wouldn't move into it automatically, it fought me when I tried to do it manually. When I left it alone and it missed the turning lane it just kept going and attempted to backtrack to get back on its navigation path.

Roundabouts:
In both cases it stopped in the middle of the roundabout by hard breaking and screaming alarms at me.

Safety Score after my first trip is now 73, I assume this is not good since they say you need 99? I literally did none of the hard breaking or aggressive turning on my own, the car did that all itself trying to navigate itself through the roundabouts and missed lane changes and forcing me to bust out of it.

I'm sure experiences differ for everyone but I'm just a typical driver with no background on tweaks nor have studied on the proper way to use it, I just turned it on and went for the drive. YMMV and I only subscribed for a month but people should really know just how beta this thing is, frankly, it's basically unusable unless your goal is to babysit the car for nearly every action it takes.
you really need to do some research... you don’t have the beta. You’re being scored and judged. You have enhanced autopilot basically until then.

Stop lights: you have to tell it to go through lights at every single light by pressing the stalk down, or using the accelerator pedal. It says it on the screen. I’d honk at you too if you didn’t follow the prompts. Just turn it off in FSD settings

Stop signs: you DONT have the beta. It won’t go on its own. It stops on its own, and the screen tells you to use the stalk or pedal to continue. Same as lights.

Just turn traffic light off if you don’t understand it. I used it daily for 100+ miles a day. It’s great if you understand it.

Changing lanes: IF you have it set to change on its own in the FSD settings, you have to be really good about constant pressure on the wheel for it to do it itself. Otherwise, to confirm lane change, use your blinker. Lane change works perfectly on its own to get on and off freeways/highways. Just have to understand it’s process.

Roundabouts: your car will not, and can not do roundabouts winless you’re in the beta, even then it’ll have a hard time.


You DO NOT HAVE BETA. It does basically nothing without you confirming to do so.

As far as your score goes, nothing can hurt your score if you ha e autopilot on. (2 presses down on the stalk) if your score was hurt, it’s because you only had cruise control on (1 press down) Which strips at lights and stop signs.

Please watch some videos and tutorials. Also, read the scoring FAQ on the app.
 
If the takeaway is "you need to read up on all these little micro rules and FAQs" before even using this feature then it's clearly no where near ready for the average user. One thing if you aren't paying $12K (or $200 a month) and then using the beta excuse.

Frankly, when in FSD it was hard to tell when I should and shouldn't interact and it basically sets off screeching alarms so in that event I could've very well hit the breaks and there were several times I had to break out of the steering mode because it was pretty much accelerating through turns, even hitting the curb on a roundabout on its own.

"You're using it wrong" is a poor excuse here. In its current form it's a terrible system that's both scary and dangerous for the average driver.
You are not the type of person it’s designed for unfortunately. I love learning how the car reacts to situations. After a while, you understand what it can and can’t do. I drive 100-200 miles a day and probably drive 5% of the time. 30% of that is through windy mountain roads and awful drivers around me. At roundabouts, I take over. It’s not designed for them. Even the beta has a hard time with them. That small amount of time i drive is because I know where it will have a hard time so I drive. Learn your car. Keep your hands on the wheel at all times as it says. Don’t complain because you don’t understand.
 
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You are not the type of person it’s designed for unfortunately. I love learning how the car reacts to situations. After a while, you understand what it can and can’t do. I drive 100-200 miles a day and probably drive 5% of the time. 30% of that is through windy mountain roads and awful drivers around me. At roundabouts, I take over. It’s not designed for them. Even the beta has a hard time with them. That small amount of time i drive is because I know where it will have a hard time so I drive. Learn your car. Keep your hands on the wheel at all times as it says. Don’t complain because you don’t understand.
Best "you're using your $12K 'feature' wrong" while blaming the driver and preaching from your pretentious high horse yet. Tell you what, keep your hands where you want them and don't presume to tell others what to do.
 
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Best "you're using your $12K 'feature' wrong" while blaming the driver and preaching from your pretentious high horse yet. Tell you what, keep your hands where you want them and don't presume to tell others what to do.
People like you are going to screw this up for the rest of us. If you don’t understand something, learn, or don’t use it. Period.
 
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People like you are going to screw this up for the rest of us. If you don’t understand something, learn, or don’t use it. Period.
If you don’t understand something
Refer to Post 1, OP is asking for help

learn
All the rest of the Posts

People like you are going to screw this up for the rest of us
Post #25. Tesla needs to be clearer so misinterpretations don't happen. OP is not the only person to think FSD Beta is installed when it isn't, or to think it should work better than it does
 
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If you don’t understand something
Refer to Post 1, OP is asking for help

learn
All the rest of the Posts

People like you are going to screw this up for the rest of us
Post #25. Tesla needs to be clearer so misinterpretations don't happen. OP is not the only person to think FSD Beta is installed, or to think it should work better than it does
Thank you, additionally (which I can see you noticed) I have subsequently conceded this and asked them to change the title of this thread. I can assure everyone here that I would've never knowingly tried to take roundabouts or even drive in the city on AP alone had I realized it, it's obvious now why my score was 73 after that drive.
 
People like you are going to screw this up for the rest of us
Post #25. Tesla needs to be clearer so misinterpretations don't happen. OP is not the only person to think FSD Beta is installed when it isn't, or to think it should work better than it does
I am certainly not going to defend Tesla on their labeling of and messaging around AutoPilot and FSD. But for all the criticism, I see a lot of inconsistent and incorrect terminology used by the posters here trying to clear things up for the OP.

The best and most consistent description of the features, IMO, comes from Tesla's website and your manual (yes, RTFM please). Every car comes with AutoPilot, which comprises "Autosteer" and "Traffic Aware Cruise Control" (TACC), along with standard active safety features:
  • Lane Assist
  • Collision Avoidance Assist
  • Speed Assist
TACC is just active cruise control and Autosteer is lane keeping with TACC engaged.

Adding the "Full Self-Driving Feature" (purchased or subscription) provides the following capabilities:
  • Auto Lane Change - when Autosteer is engaged, use turn signal to tell the car to change lanes when clear
  • Navigate on Autopilot - when Autosteer is engaged on a highway with a destination set in the Navigation system, will automatically change lanes to maintain speed, automatically make highway transitions, and exit off the highway based
  • Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control - when TACC and/or Autosteer is engaged, will (attempt to) stop at stop signs and red lights. Will proceed through a green light if it has identified a "follow" car.
  • Autopark - automatic parallel and vertical parking (be prepared for a lot of 3-point backing even when not required).
  • Summon - move the car up to 30 feet into and out of tight parking space or garage.
  • Smart Summon - claims to allow the car to pull out of a parking space and come to a selected spot, but rarely works.
  • Autosteer on City Streets (coming soon).
It is the "Autosteer on City Streets" feature that is the feature currently being tested under the term "FSD Beta," and this involves full navigation of surface streets.

Yes, the term "FSD Beta" is completely horrible in that many of these other features are also still termed "Beta" even though they are in the production release of the car's firmware, and "FSD" is used by Tesla as both a shortcut for Autosteer on City Streets feature and the overarching term for a suite of features. But if all the "experts" in these forums (and this one in particular) could use the right terms on a consistent basis, it would certainly help matters a lot.
 
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I am certainly not going to defend Tesla on their labeling of and messaging around AutoPilot and FSD. But for all the criticism, I see a lot of inconsistent and incorrect terminology used by the posters here trying to clear things up for the OP.

The best and most consistent description of the features, IMO, comes from Tesla's website and your manual (yes, RTFM please). Every car comes with AutoPilot, which comprises "Autosteer" and "Traffic Aware Cruise Control" (TACC), along with standard active safety features:
  • Lane Assist
  • Collision Avoidance Assist
  • Speed Assist
TACC is just active cruise control and Autosteer is lane keeping with TACC engaged.

Adding the "Full Self-Driving Feature" (purchased or subscription) provides the following capabilities:
  • Auto Lane Change - when Autosteer is engaged, use turn signal to tell the car to change lanes when clear
  • Navigate on Autopilot - when Autosteer is engaged on a highway with a destination set in the Navigation system, will automatically change lanes to maintain speed, automatically make highway transitions, and exit off the highway based
  • Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control - when TACC and/or Autosteer is engaged, will (attempt to) stop at stop signs and red lights. Will proceed through a green light if it has identified a "follow" car.
  • Autopark - automatic parallel and vertical parking (be prepared for a lot of 3-point backing even when not required).
  • Summon - move the car up to 30 feet into and out of tight parking space or garage.
  • Smart Summon - claims to allow the car to pull out of a parking space and come to a selected spot, but rarely works.
  • Autosteer on City Streets (coming soon).
It is the "Autosteer on City Streets" feature that is the feature currently being tested under the term "FSD Beta," and this involves full navigation of surface streets.

Yes, the term "FSD Beta" is completely horrible in that many of these other features are also still termed "Beta" even though they are in the production release of the car's firmware, and "FSD" is used by Tesla as both a shortcut for Autosteer on City Streets feature and the overarching term for a suite of features. But if all the "experts" in these forums (and this one in particular) could use the right terms on a consistent basis, it would certainly help matters a lot.
When laid out like this is it is pretty obvious, it would be nice if the screens made it this simple as well without needing to visit a FAQ or readme on a site. Seeing that "You are enrolled" threw me off which wasn't abundantly clear, and all the buttons below seem to indicate that these features were active, i.e. "full self driving", "traffic light and stop control", etc. and they were all lit up and turned on.

Just a simple box in a purple color or something similar that says "These features are currently unavailable to you, you will be notified when it becomes active" right there at the top would've been crystal clear.
 
I'm in agreement...

I think it's imperative that Tesla be extremely clear about this for the sake of safety.

Even among beta testers of the FSD, there seems to be a lack of general information and communication. I would expect some emails and guidance - general status, information on what to be alert for, common language release information, etc.

For a new owner who has seen YouTube footage of the FSD Beta, it is reasonable that they believe that by buying or subscribing to Full Self Driving, their vehicle would function in the same way. The best outcome is that they feel ripped off and ashamed for not knowing the FSD beta enrollment process. The worst-case scenario could be a safety event caused by using general AP on a city street. The general public doesn’t know the difference between each of the versions to assess blame.
 
... Seeing that "You are enrolled" threw me off which wasn't abundantly clear, and all the buttons below seem to indicate that these features were active, i.e. "full self driving", "traffic light and stop control", etc. and they were all lit up and turned on.

Just a simple box in a purple color or something similar that says "These features are currently unavailable to you, you will be notified when it becomes active" right there at the top would've been crystal clear.
Unless I'm wrong, I believe you DO have all the options shown here. What you don't yet have is FSD Beta which then changes the look of the options screen when/if you get it. But you do have all these options now.

1644859784799.png
 

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