Connectivity: service plan/upgradability/speed

[AmpedRealtor]

I'd be very surprised if you heard this from a Tesla employee. What you might have heard was one or more of the following:

• Firmware updates will be streamed over the air even if you don't have a 3G package for content. Tesla will make this happen via a dedicated lower bandwidth signal or somesuch.
• Signature vehicles come with a year included of connectivity. General production vehicle come with 3 months of slacker. All vehicles come with a week trial of XM.
• All vehicles in North America (and maybe elsewhere) currently have connectivity. Paid packages have not yet been finalized, so there are no fees for anyone yet.

I was also told by local Tesla reps at the "Tesla Gallery" in Scottsdale that connectivity was free. That statement was not qualified in any way.

Unless Tesla included disclaimers in any of its contracts (MVPA) or at the showrooms stating that the car's connectivity is for a "limited time", customers have a right to expect their vehicles to continue functioning as purchased and received. For Tesla to start charging for this service means that they are essentially taking away a feature/function of the car that was represented to be included with the purchase. Indeed, the car cannot even function as advertised or as presented in the galleries without connectivity. By including "free" connectivity with shipping vehicles without qualifying it any way as a non-standard or limited time promotion, that connectivity cannot later be separated from the vehicle. That's like Tesla coming back six months after you buy the car to tell you that you need to pay a monthly fee for your rear view mirrors otherwise they are going to take them away.

Certainly Tesla can do what it wants, but I don't think taking away 3G connectivity that was included without disclaimer in everyone's purchase is going to stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

[strider]

Without connectivity you lose:

Web Browser
Google maps (incl traffic and satellite view)
Slacker
Tune-In
All app controls (Pre-heating/cooling, charge status, tracking etc.)

Do we know the app won't work without a paid connectivity plan? They could be using the low-speed diagnostic channel that is always there.

Ah yes...I completely misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification. I could tether just fine with my iPhone...problem is that it will primarily be my wife's car and she still has an old Blackberry and refuses to get a new phone. I am hoping that all of the Tesla's functionality confuses and frustrates her to the point that she'll just swap cars with me....

Off topic but has she looked at the new Blackberry's? The Q10 has the same form factor as the old ones but all the latest bells and whistles (including tethering).

 

[Bifff67]

It was pretty clear to me the connectivity would become paid. But I dont remember the source. Here are a couple things I found:

"Features" obscure one liner: Some touchscreen features require the optional Tech Package or a Connectivity subscription.

and: When is Tesla going to announce connectivity pricing? | Forums | Tesla Motors

 

[NigelM]

Do we know the app won't work without a paid connectivity plan? They could be using the low-speed diagnostic channel that is always there.

IIRC they said that FW updates will be free and available even without a paid plan; as far as the app is concerned, you may be right, we don't know for definite but I can't see them offering up unlimited usage on the diagnostic channel that Tesla are paying for. Can the app even function on that channel?

 

[EKnight47]

It was pretty clear to me the connectivity would become paid. But I dont remember the source. Here are a couple things I found:

"Features" obscure one liner: Some touchscreen features require the optional Tech Package or a Connectivity subscription.

and: When is Tesla going to announce connectivity pricing? | Forums | Tesla Motors

Thanks for sharing the link. I know that a lot of owners and potential buyers lurk on this forum, but do they just assume that everyone does? If this post was out there in January of this year and I was just told that "it's free" in the show room 2 weeks ago....it's either a little slimy that it wasn't fully disclosed that there will eventually be a charge in the future or it's disappointing that the employees in the showroom are unaware of this.

 

[Zythryn]

Thanks for sharing the link. I know that a lot of owners and potential buyers lurk on this forum, but do they just assume that everyone does? If this post was out there in January of this year and I was just told that "it's free" in the show room 2 weeks ago....it's either a little slimy that it wasn't fully disclosed that there will eventually be a charge in the future or it's disappointing that the employees in the showroom are unaware of this.

As I recall, the connectivity was a free trial period on the website when I ordered it.
I also recall the paperwork indicated a three month period before payment was required (which lasted much longer in many cases).
For my sig, I was told it would be a year.

I would suggest you either got incorrect information, in which case the employee should be retrained, or you misunderstood.

 

[jerry33]

As I recall, the connectivity was a free trial period on the website when I ordered it.
I also recall the paperwork indicated a three month period before payment was required (which lasted much longer in many cases).
For my sig, I was told it would be a year.

This is my understanding as well. It has always been known that the data plan would be a paid subscription. What's not known is how much of the functionality is still available through wi-fi. There's no technical reason why the maps and apps couldn't be streamed through a hot-spot. If that's the case then you would only need your phones data plan. (Of course, the Tesla data plan may be cheaper than using your phone's plan--lots of unknowns here.)

 

[EKnight47]

As I recall, the connectivity was a free trial period on the website when I ordered it.
I also recall the paperwork indicated a three month period before payment was required (which lasted much longer in many cases).
For my sig, I was told it would be a year.

I would suggest you either got incorrect information, in which case the employee should be retrained, or you misunderstood.

Believe it or not, the Tesla rep actually made a mistake. I understand that it's very hard for some of you to come to grips with that! I haven't signed anything yet...they just have my $2500 and are sourcing parts. I'd gladly sign (free 3G or not) if the docs were sitting in front of me right now.

 

[brianman]

Believe it or not, the Tesla rep actually made a mistake. I understand that it's very hard for some of you to come to grips with that!

Reread the Zythryn post that you quoted. You're basically saying part of what he said in this last sentence. And you seem to have a chip on your shoulder w/r/t forum replies. I understand you're unhappy with Tesla, but your posts have come across as hostile. At least to me they have.

This is intended as constructive feedback. Hopefully it will be taken as such. Cheers.

 

[rlang59]

Without connectivity you lose:

Web Browser
Google maps (incl traffic and satellite view)
Slacker
Tune-In
All app controls (Pre-heating/cooling, charge status, tracking etc.)

To what extent some of these would be available via WiFi connection, I don't know.

Probably loose voice commands as well.

 

[TommyBoy]

Interestingly enough, my LTE here in the LA area is screaming. Often it's over 10Mbps. I do have personal hotspot capability on my AT&T iPhone5 and it's intoxicating to think that I could have a mobile machine with over 10Mbps connectivity almost all over the LA basin and Orange County. Of course there are no guarantees that the Tesla apps and browser will be lightning fast because they may be inherently inefficient and network speed may actually have little to do with their perceived speed to the end user. Also, my data through the wifi hotspot is limited and expensive. Not so sure I want my wife to surf the web through my phone while in our Tesla! Time will tell. I'll still keep the 3G even if I have to pay for it. I guess I shouldn't have tipped my hand and let Tesla know that.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Probably loose voice commands as well.

And, Supercharger site updates (outside of firmware updates), maybe, unless they use the 'diagnostic channel' for that.

@TommyBoy, if browsing in the car when tethered through your phone (when that becomes possible in the near future), it's very unlikely that you'd consume a lot of bandwidth as the Tesla browser is incapable of streaming video and such. In any case, that browser is an embarrassment and is terribly sluggish even when rendering simple pages given a full 3G signal. I'd rather continue to browse on the phone's small screen.

 

[rlang59]

Tesla has made the mistake of connecting too many of the cars features to the Internet so they need to be very carefully how they handle this. There could very well be a huge pr nightmare when that functionality goes away without paying a monthly fee. And I'm sorry but "You can tether the car to your phone" is not a good answer.

 

[sublimaze1]

Tesla has made the mistake of connecting too many of the cars features to the Internet so they need to be very carefully how they handle this. There could very well be a huge pr nightmare when that functionality goes away without paying a monthly fee. And I'm sorry but "You can tether the car to your phone" is not a good answer.

There are two connectivity systems. Theirs and ours (for lack of a better set of terms) - theirs controls necessary functions: software updates, etc.

Ours is for fun stuff.

I believe there are two individual sim chips as well. Might be wrong. Have been a lot lately. Ask my wife.

 

[EKnight47]

Reread the Zythryn post that you quoted. You're basically saying part of what he said in this last sentence. And you seem to have a chip on your shoulder w/r/t forum replies. I understand you're unhappy with Tesla, but your posts have come across as hostile. At least to me they have.

This is intended as constructive feedback. Hopefully it will be taken as such. Cheers.

No chip. The comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. You seem very well informed about the Tesla Model S and the comments are appreciated. It was your unsolicited "knowledge" of what I actually heard at the gallery that I could do without. :wink:

I'm also not angry at Tesla. I just shared what I was told. Cheers

 

[strider]

Tesla has made the mistake of connecting too many of the cars features to the Internet so they need to be very carefully how they handle this. There could very well be a huge pr nightmare when that functionality goes away without paying a monthly fee. And I'm sorry but "You can tether the car to your phone" is not a good answer.

Yes and no. Many cars are going this route so this is not a new thing. For example: Audi connect®: In Car WiFi - Car Internet Access | Audi USA

I feel they have been quite upfront about 3G service becoming paid at some point. EKnight47's is the only time I've heard a rep say "free" (as in beer).

 

[VolkerP]

Two suggestions to Tesla wrt connectivity:

1) I would buy a connectivity-enabled HPWC in an instance! Install it in my garage, hook it up with power and Ethernet. Model S should use the existing 'power line' data channel to not only talk to the HPWC, but to connect to the internet.

2) Tesla should provide WiFi access at all supercharger stations. It can be a hidden network (=not detected when other devices scan for WiFi). The access code is built into Model S. So the moment you roll on the lot, you have 110MB/s connectivity and can make full use of the time you spend there browsing the web.

Discuss.

 

[rlang59]

Yes and no. Many cars are going this route so this is not a new thing. For example: Audi connect®: In Car WiFi - Car Internet Access | Audi USA

I feel they have been quite upfront about 3G service becoming paid at some point. EKnight47's is the only time I've heard a rep say "free" (as in beer).

That may be true but Tesla is not Audi. They need to be much more careful than them with how the price this. One thing I will say is that they need to come up with a solution to display the overhead map without google for those who have paid or the tech package. Having that screen blank out when not in 3G is a problem when the car has a map database on board.

 

[dsm363]

I agree. Large companies can afford to price a data plan at cost or even at a small loss but Tesla likely can't at this point.

 

[rlang59]

The Audi plan cost $430 for 30 months (or $30/month if you want to pay monthly), that is a fair price for the package and would hope Tesla would price theirs similarly.