Do you know this for a fact, with certainty? It doesn't seem to make sense... I know the GSM phones can usually handle quad- or penta-band GSM, from 800-850 all the way to 2100 MHz. If the antennas can handle that range, what cellular spectrum is it that they cannot access?
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Connectivity: service plan/upgradability/speed
- Thread starter dsm363
- Start date
Do you know this for a fact, with certainty? It doesn't seem to make sense... I know the GSM phones can usually handle quad- or penta-band GSM, from 800-850 all the way to 2100 MHz. If the antennas can handle that range, what cellular spectrum is it that they cannot access?
+1. But another reason this would be good: it would enable Tesla to provide some assistance in the area of SuperCharger etiquette and queueing. It would help drivers who are nearing a SuperCharger to query it and find out the current status, and perhaps claim a spot in the queue which Tesla would manage. When one of the cars is done and pulls out, the next one in the queue would be alerted (maybe given 60 seconds) to pull in and charge. That way, as you approach a SuperCharger, you could claim a spot in the queue, and you might find a message along the lines of "There are 4 cars currently charging and 2 in queue. Add yourself to queue? (y/n)" etc and then "You are now car 3 in the queue."
Also, it'd be handy to be able to report ICEs parked in SuperCharger spaces.
strider
Active Member
Have you actually used the offline maps? I've never been outside 3G range but it should work like a regular Garmin GPS where you enter an address and it routes you to it. I find the routing next to the speedo to be quite usable and accurate.
You could say I misspoke. The length of he antenna dictates which frequencies it will operate best on. Specific to the iPhone, the iPhone 4 has 3 antennas, CDMA or GSM, wifi, & Bluetooth. The iPhone 4S has four antennas, CDMA, GSM, wifi, & Bluetooth.
Regardless of the number of antennas, providers will lock the phone to their specific bands. Thus Verizon's iPhone can work on foreign GSM networks but not on AT&T.
ZBB
Emperor
While I assumed that when I bought my Tesla that I would have to pay for 3G service at some point (or tether to my phone, which honestly doesn't sound appealing), I will say that Tesla's site could have more information. The only references to "Connectivity Package" I could find back then (March 2013) were:
I searched for more info on the Connectivity subscription or package -- and couldn't find anything on Tesla's site. Only after finding this thread did I realize it was still in the works, so Tesla was offering it on a free trial basis. It would have helped if Tesla had included something on their site stating something like "Connectivity Package: Limited time trial offered on all cars. Subscription prices TBD."
Additionally, the Tech Package description of the nav system was different than Tesla uses now:
Tesla certainly hasn't been clear on this topic. But I didn't expect it to be free forever. I'm guessing it will be ~$30/month (similar to Audi), although I'm hoping it follows AT&T's iPad plans (different packages avail, including the ability to add it as just another device on your plan).
But even if its $30/month -- that's still less than a tank of gas used to cost... I'll live...
- The "Interior" section of the "Features" page Model S Features | Tesla Motors -- which states "Some touchscreen features require the optional Tech Package or a Connectivity subscription."
- The Owner's Manual PDF https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/ms_owners_guide.pdf -- which states "If your Model S is equipped with the Connectivity package, internet radioservices* (such as Slacker and TuneIn) have been set up for you and canbe selected using Media Player."
I searched for more info on the Connectivity subscription or package -- and couldn't find anything on Tesla's site. Only after finding this thread did I realize it was still in the works, so Tesla was offering it on a free trial basis. It would have helped if Tesla had included something on their site stating something like "Connectivity Package: Limited time trial offered on all cars. Subscription prices TBD."
Additionally, the Tech Package description of the nav system was different than Tesla uses now:
- The Wayback Machine on Apr 4 (the day before I finalized my order...) states: "Navigation system with
seven years of free map updates" Model S Options Pricing | Tesla Motors - Tesla's current Design Studio has changed to: "Onboard maps and navigation for North America with free updates for 7 years"
Tesla certainly hasn't been clear on this topic. But I didn't expect it to be free forever. I'm guessing it will be ~$30/month (similar to Audi), although I'm hoping it follows AT&T's iPad plans (different packages avail, including the ability to add it as just another device on your plan).
But even if its $30/month -- that's still less than a tank of gas used to cost... I'll live...
Yah, I had the same thought when I read that post. I should probably do the math on how many tanks of gas Perf cost me.
ZBB
Emperor
Yah, I had the same thought when I read that post. I should probably do the math on how many tanks of gas Perf cost me.
I bought a 60... So this would by my only tank of gas each month.(or half tank at $30)...
techMology
Member
I was told it was free too. By a Tesla employee in the showroom/gallery/store. He implied that it was free forever, but after I poked a little bit, he admitted he didn't know for how long, but only that it wasn't a focus for them right now, and that no plans have been announced to start charging.
So, brianman, count yourself very surprised at least one additional time.
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It's doubtful that there will be a low-speed "diagnostic channel". You're either connected, or you're not. What services you're permitted to use over that connection is what they can control.
I see it working this way (I've been in the wireless industry for 17 years, so consider this an extremely educated guess from a professional):
- Tesla have a vested interest in keeping the car connected. As many have mentioned, there are too many features tied to the car to cripple it with no data connectivity.
- They have established a relationship in North America with AT&T for connectivity, and, from what I can glean, have slapped in a non-user swappable AT&T SIM card. Again, from what I have gleaned (I don't have my car yet), even cars in Canada have AT&T service; they just roam while they're up here (I'm in Canada). All. The. Time. Not sure what's happening with the European cars, but it's possible that they also have AT&T SIM cards/service as well. This is INCREDIBLY expensive for Tesla. They won't keep this up for long, which means it will change shortly.
- Due to the location of the SIM card, it's doubtful you'll be able to pop in a T-Mobile SIM card, or your own AT&T SIM card and have it just "work" (even though we would all love that). Why?
- I expect Tesla to have a basic level of connectivity that they pay AT&T for (the so called "diagnostic" channel). It won't be low speed (that doesn't make any sense to anyone), it will just be limited to Tesla diagnostic functions and software updates (maybe... I could see these being delivered exclusively upon a service appointment in the future, or, by encouraging the use of WiFi as they have already hinted at). This diagnostic level of service will most certainly be free.
- There will probably be another level of service on top of this, or maybe multiples, each costing more money. For example, a "Google Maps" plan, and/or a "Entertainment" plan (Slacker, TuneIn, etc...), a Web Surfing plan, and Remote Control/App plan. They may lump these into one "Connectivity" plan for $30 a month or whatever. It's trivial to restrict usage of certain services depending on what you're paying for.
- I expect Tesla to be the service provider, or MVNO, as this case may be. Hence, they won't let you tack it on to your existing AT&T service plan for an extra $10 a month or whatever. Why? Two reasons. 1) Revenue: they'll make a small taste off of each subscription if it's priced appropriately, and 2) Administration & maintenance: troubleshooting connectivity issues and user experience problems while not controlling the data bearer/connectivity is a nightmare. Will you potentially be able to hack it and use your own SIM card? Yeah, probably. But depending on their level of paranoia and control, it could be difficult, or it may be straightforward.
As someone else said, the arrival of WiFi means price plans are coming soon!
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Based on a post I saw somewhere else, the chipset currently in the Model S doesn't support LTE. It maxes out at 14.4 Mbps HSPA+, which, the wireless companies in the US decided to market as 4G a couple of years ago (once LTE from Verizon started showing up).
Unless they've changed the chipset since that post (I hope they have - I want LTE when my car arrives), current cars won't be LTE capable, thus, a "free upgrade" to LTE won't be possible.
...and if for some reason they start to allow you to throw in your own SIM card (I doubt this), you're stuck choosing between AT&T and T-Mobile in the US (or perhaps smaller regional GSM players). No Verizon, and no Sprint.
techMology
Member
Denarius is right on all counts. Space concerns limit the number of frequencies a particular phone can support due to different wavelength lengths and antenna requirements (MIMO, for example). There are also limits on some chipsets (e.g. it may support 10 frequency bands, but only have connections for 5 available on the chip). You don't have these space concerns on a full sized automobile, but you may still have some limitations imposed by the chipset that can't be worked around.
So here's a question.
Let's say a Model S owner decides not to sign up for the data service when Tesla finally offers it. From then on you're in wifi or tethering mode -- your car is like a submerged submarine, off the air until it surfaces and pings home.
So what would the consequences be of this in terms of security? Tesla owners tend to pooh-pooh services like LoJack because they're deemed inferior and redundant given the Model S's connection to the Tesla servers all the time. But what happens if a car is no longer phoning home all the time?
What options for security/tracking of a missing/stolen car would an owner have then?
Let's say a Model S owner decides not to sign up for the data service when Tesla finally offers it. From then on you're in wifi or tethering mode -- your car is like a submerged submarine, off the air until it surfaces and pings home.
So what would the consequences be of this in terms of security? Tesla owners tend to pooh-pooh services like LoJack because they're deemed inferior and redundant given the Model S's connection to the Tesla servers all the time. But what happens if a car is no longer phoning home all the time?
What options for security/tracking of a missing/stolen car would an owner have then?
ZBB
Emperor
I recommend reading your MVPA text.
There is a clause in it that talks about the "telematics subscription" -- that says that the car sends "diagnostic ans system data" to Tesla and that there is "no charge" for that service.
What that clause doesn't mention is any other Internet services -- web connections, infotainment, etc. that's what they will charge for the "connectivity" package...
There is a clause in it that talks about the "telematics subscription" -- that says that the car sends "diagnostic ans system data" to Tesla and that there is "no charge" for that service.
What that clause doesn't mention is any other Internet services -- web connections, infotainment, etc. that's what they will charge for the "connectivity" package...
I knew it wouldn't be free forever when I bought the car even though I got vastly conflicting statements from Tesla employees. However, I am frustrated by Tesla's continued lack of details on this point. I just wish they would tell us what the deal will be at least a few months before we have to do something.
JerryNycom
Member
They probably haven't hashed out the details with ATT, they might want more data usage as more cars come out...
mnx
2018 M3P
If/when the time comes I think they should consider offering a tiered plan. Unlimited plans encourage waste (like driving around with the maps in satellite mode all the time for example).
mknox
Well-Known Member
I suspect they'll also want to negotiate directly with carriers in each market. I can't imagine it's cost effective to have cars in Canada on AT&T roaming on Rogers or Bell or whoever it is. (It sure isn't when I do it with my cell phone!).
Read the MVPA. It has almost a full page about "connectivity".
It basically says that if you get a connection plan Tesla can use it for car 'phone home diagnostics' usage. If you do not have a connection plan Tesla will get one for their own 'phone home diagnostics' usage.
So your car will not ever (except potentially for a short time after you cancel a data plan) be without some form of connectivity. You won't be able to use any internet unless you buy a connectivity package.
It basically says that if you get a connection plan Tesla can use it for car 'phone home diagnostics' usage. If you do not have a connection plan Tesla will get one for their own 'phone home diagnostics' usage.
So your car will not ever (except potentially for a short time after you cancel a data plan) be without some form of connectivity. You won't be able to use any internet unless you buy a connectivity package.
Nah, the signals are the same - Tesla can't modify your local cell tower. They're just paying a lower amount for a slower / low data bandwidth plan of some kind.
My car didn't come with an XM trial. Thank heavens!!!
My old Infiniti came with a free trial. I found it useless and didn't use it. XM then spent the next two years trying to get me to "renew" my subscription. Weekly mailings, regular phone calls (I'm on the Canadian "do not call" list but they're allowed to call because we have a "business relationship"). Was getting annoying. Eventually they called when I wasn't busy... "What kind of music do you like?" "Anything" "Country music?" "Nope" "Do you like sports?" "Nope" Poor guy was at it for 15 minutes before he realized I was just stringing him along. They never called again, and the mailings stopped. Definitely don't want to start with that again!
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There was a "data services agreement" I had to sign when I bought the car. IIRC it said we were expected to pay for data services, except for maintenance stuff.
A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on.
